Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

[Josh Steinberg]

The situation set up by the episode-ending cliffhanger would seem to point to Burnham having to kill Book (and Reno and Tarka) to save the 10-c, Earth, and Ni'Var. I can't see the show going all in on that, though; it seems too brutal for this one.

I think Reno gets out. She’s got at least part of her badge, so somehow or another she gets beamed away to live another day. Notaro is really doing great work btw - I’m not loving Tarka b-story but Reno’s presence elevates those scenes.

 

[Jason_V]

The idea that an advanced species is causing widespread destruction in our galaxy without realizing the collateral damage they’re causing is a grave enough threat without needing the two most famous planets to suddenly face a direct threat. And the tension and intrigue of establishing a dialogue with an entirely new and different kind of species is exciting enough without adding a rogue scientist trying to blow the whole thing up. Making first contact with the 10C feels new and exciting in the world of Trek. Tarka taking hostages, threatening everyone and being unwilling to listen to reason, by contrast, feels like something I’ve seen a thousand times before.

I didn't love that part either (loved the rest of the episode, though), but it's all about Reno's little speech about the burned guy. She kept him alive for her, not for him. Tarka is doing the same thing, in a way: he's continuing with this mad quest because it defines him and who he is. Take this away from him and who is he? What is he? He has no family, no life, nothing outside of this. Book, at the very least, has a semblance of logic in him...though I do not need for him to be redeemed. Crossed that bridge a long time ago.

So, as I said a paragraph ago, loved this episode. It had a bit of everything in it, but I was really enthralled by two pieces: the crew working together to figure out how Ten-C communicates (and how to communicate back) and Book/Reno.

On the communication: when Michelle Paradise said Ten-C was not a species we had seen before in Trek, she wasn't kidding. Other aliens communicated in metaphors and half-telepathically...but most are verbal. Ten-C is not. Yes, figuring out the linguistic code happened a bit fast, but just like last week, would the audience sit around and wait for the experimentation and trial and error to happen (and be patient with it)? Likely no. In that vein, I'm AOK with the speed at which it happened. It was nice seeing the process which led to communication being opened with Ten-C...we don't get that in Trek a lot since the universal translator does a lot of the work. Is it reminiscent of other movies? Sure, but ya know what, it's a new concept for Trek, so I'm going to give them a lot of slack.

Do I have problems with so many important folks going into the Ten-C sphere/holodeck/whatever? Yes. But it gives the most important people-Burnham, T'Rina and Rillek-deniability that they were involved in what Book and Tarka were doing. Just something I noticed.

Over on Book's ship, Reno plays a masterful game with Book while Tarka is completely oblivious to what is happening. Again, he is blinded by one thing: what he wants. Damn everyone else, including Discovery and the fact EARTH WILL BE DESTROYED IF HE COMPLETES HIS PLAN. That's the key part...he doesn't give a darn about Earth; he cares only about himself. In that sense, he is just like Reno and the burned ensign: engaging in a course of action just for personal reasons. That plays for Book; I think he can see through some of his pain and anger over the destruction of Kwejian when he realizes Tarka is absolutely mad.

I like having an episode like this. It's not filler to me; it's putting pieces of the puzzle together to see how the crew gets from A to B to C. Even with the ending, it felt hopeful to me, that no matter the differences, we can always find a way. And indeed, Discovery was on its way to communicating appropriately with Ten-C until Tarka set the world afire again.

Minor quibbles like "no one knew Reno was gone" leave me kinda going "meh." Her communicator was left on the ship, everyone is very busy doing a lot of things and, presumably, they think she's handling something else. Burnham and Saru having time for a moment also works in the context of the show: Engineering was putting together the hydrocarbon machine and what else were they going to do? Burnham needed to talk to someone, she trusts Saru, over and done.

I am excited for the finale next week. A bunch of strong episodes this season.

 

[joshEH]

Nobody's even mentioned this one yet:

We just found out that "Cleveland Booker" is a title that is passed on from Courier to Courier, and Book is the fifth one to have the name. Yes, Book is the Dread Pirate Roberts! (It's now very important to me that we find out that his birth-name is "Cummerbund"...)

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

This was a very, very, very good episode. The nods to Arrival were well done and while some of the machinations on Book’s ship have long been expected, I was thrilled with the energy this week.

 

[Jason_V]

The trailer for next week's episode is normally out on Friday nights, local time. I can't find it on StarTrek.com or YouTube. I can't imagine there won't be one for the season finale...I'll keep an eye out for it.

 

[Josh Dial]

For all its faults, sometimes this show is just pure, unfiltered Star Trek. This was one of those times.

 

[Nelson Au]

I watched Species 10-C last night. I agree, it was quite well done and very much felt like Arrival. It continued with last week’s vibe of really being in an alien world. A world that is so different that we have to learn how to make communication.

The scene when the DOT‘s was spraying the surface of the hyperfield with the friendly molecules and it reacts, the Discovery tried to make a break for it. It struck me less then a fight or flight reaction and more like naughty children ringing the doorbell and then running. But the underwater aliens from The Abyss grabs the ship.

It very much felt like Species 10-C is benevolent. I liked how they are asking the Discovery crew what the bomb was. I’m curious what Species 10-C thinks after Tarka did his thing. Are they mad, are they concerned what Tarka did?

Hard to believe next week is the season finale. Seems like there’s a lot of potential story to cover, meeting the aliens and making friends, besides stopping Tarka. I imagine they wouldn’t have the budget to make it a 2 hour finale.

 

[jayembee]

Nobody's even mentioned this one yet:

We just found out that "Cleveland Booker" is a title that is passed on from Courier to Courier, and Book is the fifth one to have the name. Yes, Book is the Dread Pirate Roberts! (It's now very important to me that we find out that his birth-name is "Cummerbund"...)

Yeah, when that bit of dialogue came out, I turned to my wife and said, "Ah! He's the Dread Pirate Roberts!"

 

[Jason_V]

Officially given up on waiting for a season finale trailer to hit. It's not on ST.com, though promo pics were released earlier this week. Seems strange to me not to promote the season finale with a trailer unless something mindblowingly unexpected happens and they can't cut a trailer without ruining it (highly doubtful, I think).

Oh well, one day left.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

A strong finale, I thought, that really distilled the virtues of Star Trek to their essence.

And the cameo at the end of the episode shows just how far reaching the impact and influence of Star Trek is.

 

[Jeff Brooks]

I really stopped liking the show once it went into the future, (even though it had to). I have not liked anything about this season. It is just not "Star Trek" to me, anymore. I did not need much of a push to decide not to watch it any longer after this last episode, but I got it. Ridiculous.

 

[jayembee]

It is just not "Star Trek" to me, anymore.

How is it "not 'Star Trek'". This storyline was about as "seek out new life [forms] and new civilizations" as you can get!

My wife and I loved the finale. She's not as up on things as one might expect, so she had to ask me if there was going to be another season. She thought this has the feeling of a series finale, not just a season finale.

I thought Book's fate was a bit of a cheat, but the 10-C's explanation worked for me, so I'll go with it. The explanation for Discovery being able to get back home was also a bit of hand-waving. I was expecting that they were going to try to snag the prototype portable spore drive from Book's ship before it went boom.

Anyway, Jeff, sorry this show didn't work for you. Can't please everyone. I'm loving it, and looking forward to Season 5.

 

[joshEH]

I really stopped liking the show once it went into the future, (even though it had to). I have not liked anything about this season. It is just not "Star Trek" to me, anymore. I did not need much of a push to decide not to watch it any longer after this last episode, but I got it. Ridiculous.

Really? What stopped being "Star Trek" to you this season?

Was it the crew of the starship Discovery figuring out how to communicate with nearly-unfathomable cosmic entities solely from first principles, including mathematics and learning how to compensate for their entirely different evolution and thought-processes?

Was it Burnham inviting the whole crew to participate in making first contact with said nearly-unfathomable cosmic species in order to save Earth and Vulcan, echoing the first regular episode of The Original Series, "The Corbomite Maneuver," when Captain Kirk says to Lt. David Bailey, "The face of the unknown -- I think I owe you a look at it"?

Was it Saru providing the newly-approximated hydrocarbon-translations, with an algorithm provided by Stamets, Adira, and Zora, which by all cooperating together allowed the extragalactic Species 10-C to communicate with a humanoid species for what was very likely the first time in its entire history, and form a lasting bond with not only Humans and Vulcans, but also countless other species in the Milky Way?

Was it Book finally convincing Tarka that non-violence is the answer to nearly all problems, and to aid in averting the catastrophe that he had initially set into motion?

Was it the fact that, having made peaceful first contact after originally presuming hostile intent, this is only the beginning of what promises to be a very hopeful conversation between Species Ten-C and the Federation?

Was it the Federation continuing to be rebuilt after nearly a century-and-a-half of galactic strife and turmoil, largely due to the diplomacy of Starfleet and the Discovery-crew?

Was it exemplifying what Star Trek is all about -- i.e., finding a way to talk to people, to find a compassionate solution involving people communicating instead of trying to kill each other? This has been the watchword of the franchise from the beginning, whether it's Kirk choosing to help Balok even after the Fesarius almost destroyed the Enterprise; Picard admitting that he needs Q's help against the Borg; the Dominion War ending, not from military might, but an act of compassion by Odo; or Harry Kim making an AI remember that its job is to protect, not destroy; and so on.

Just curious to know what Gene Roddenberry himself would've killed with fire this past season out of sheer rage over the showrunners betraying his vision -- maybe you could provide some specific examples?

 

[Jason_V]

Be back tomorrow with actual thoughts, but “Coming Home” stuck the landing in a million different ways for me. I needed the optimistic episode tonight. And that was as optimistic and positive as I could have ever hoped for.

 

[TonyD]

Well.

As soon as Book disappeared from the bridge appearing to be lost in the explosion while being transported I said to myself the 10C “collected” him. .

This season was a thinly veiled commentary on environmental destruction on Earth and that’s not a complaint just an observation.

I liked that they discovered a new species and was able to make a successful first contact. That much is the best of what Star Trek can do. Wish it didn’t take an entire season of 13 episodes to do it.

Overall I actually enjoyed the season despite my many complaints.
The middle of the season almost lost me though. Finished up strong.

 

[TonyD]

A strong finale, I thought, that really distilled the virtues of Star Trek to their essence.

And the cameo at the end of the episode shows just how far reaching the impact and influence of Star Trek is.

What cameo?

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

What cameo?

Spoiler: 5x13 Ending

The President of United Earth was played by voting rights activist and one-and-future Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams.

 

[TonyD]

Thanks.
I finally figured it out.

 

[Sam Favate]

When the President of the Federation comes to Burnham at the end I thought she’d say, “You know that Book has to go directly to Federation prison, right?” There should have been consequences.

 

[Jason_V]

When the President of the Federation comes to Burnham at the end I thought she’d say, “You know that Book has to go directly to Federation prison, right?” There should have been consequences.

I think this was my one quibble with the episode (aside from a not great zoom out effects shot, IMO, at the end). Book threw his lot in with Tarka, they attacked an alien species and almost started a war. This is a Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200 moment for me. Reasons be damned...actions have consequences. (Same for Ndoye...)

But onto "Coming Home." A pretty wonderful mix of "human" drama and space battles, the requisite VFX and light jokes, an emphasis on empathy and emotions, a happy ending, the lack of a cliffhanger for next year...and the very definition of "explore strange new worlds, seek out new life forms and civilization and to boldly go where no one has gone before." (Except for in one episode of TOS, but I'll forgive it.) I think we all knew this going into the second half of the season, but the answer was not violence. Period. The answer has always been and will always be diplomacy, talking and empathy...no matter how different the two sides may be. With enough time and patience and a resolve to get it right, communication can and will and always does work.

How do we do that, though? The Ten-C communication through hydrocarbons, which are associated with emotions. Fear, anxiety, sadness, belonging. Yes, some of the translations ended up being a touch too fast for me, but we are working within the confines of a television series. But when you can find that common ground between people, using a shared language like mathematics and then emotions, it's far easier to see the other group as worthy. The appeal to the emotions-you're destroying our homes, we are one who then come together and some broke off from us, we are sad, etc.-saves United Earth, the Federation, Ni'Var, Discovery...everything. The representation of the group near the end was symbolic and very important, I think. Different genders and species and colors and appearances and costumes standing united with one overriding emotion: sadness. That is powerful.

In the history of Trek, this is one of the very few times I actually felt like...damn, maybe the crew isn't going to pull this one off. Maybe everyone is going to die or they're going to be too late. I know the show is coming back for a new year, but this is a season finale and Discovery has pulled the carpet out from under us before, so it's not entirely unprecedented.

It was good seeing Tilly again and she worked well with Admiral Vance. The things the starbase could do to evacuate people was wildly incredible and I never expected it. T'Rina and Saru work so well together, the actors have great chemistry and I genuinely enjoy their scenes.

Lots of call outs to prior episodes this season, but one got me thinking: when the spore drive burned out, I was wondering if the show was in for another massive plot twist by making Discovery the new Voyager. I'm glad they didn't go down that road, but it was a thought in my head.

When the United Earth president comes on board and says United Earth is back in the Federation...no negotiations, no talks. That was a hugely emotional moment for me, and still is this morning just thinking about it. The universe, at least this universe, feels whole right now.

If Season 3 was about what happens when we are separated from one another (ie. the Burn), then Season 4-for me-is about making sure we never get to that place again. How to reach across the aisle, how to talk to one another, one small step creates another and then another...until there is a wild amount of respect between President Rillak and Captain Burnham, a forgiveness between Ndoye and everyone she put in danger, a peace and understanding between the Ten-C and the Federation, welcoming old friends back (Tilly, for starters), and by working at those relationships, anything is possible.

Yeah, still love the episode. Great season for me with some things that don't quite work, but I don't expect perfection. This was the blast of positivity I personally needed last night.