Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

[Adam Lenhardt]

The problem I have with the show is that apart from the entire crew behaving like high school children there is no way any of them should be Starfleet officers. As I am currently watching Voyager there is just no way to compare them to Janeway’s crew.

The Voyager crew are from a Federation that is a century further advanced, though. Janeway even comments at one point about how the shenanigans of Kirk's era would never be permitted in her time.

And Discovery also hasn't had a lot of stability at the top; Lorca was an impersonator, Pike was on temporary assignment, Saru was technically acting captain, and Burnham was just given the job in the season finale. It's hard to impose good order and discipline in those circumstances. Given everything they've been though, I can accept that Discovery's crew would be more unorthodox than most Federation vessels.

 

[Sam Favate]

It's just Burnham rarely being accountable that makes me want to quit the show. But there are things to like about it. It can be very thoughtful and have good things to say. Maybe the writers will write Burnham like a Captain in season 4.

I can guarantee you there will be at least one episode in season 4 where Burnham tells the crew she is about to disobey a direct order from Starfleet (for the right reasons of course) and the crew all decide to stand with her. Starfleet will later see the error of its ways, and all will be fine. (Except in the minds of fans who are tired of both this trope and Burnham's disobedience.)

 

[Jason_V]

I think that’s a pretty unfair thing to lob at Discovery and Burnham. There hasn’t been a single series that didn’t have the lead character break the rules at least once, if not a dozen times. And they don’t get demoted or face most consequences. Our leads are almost always right when they break the rules and the higher ups are always proven wrong. Heck, Trek commodore’s and admiral’s are rarely right.

 

[Museum Pieces]

I think that’s a pretty unfair thing to lob at Discovery and Burnham. There hasn’t been a single series that didn’t have the lead character break the rules at least once, if not a dozen times. And they don’t get demoted or face most consequences. Our leads are almost always right when they break the rules and the higher ups are always proven wrong. Heck, Trek commodore’s and admiral’s are rarely right.

Not mutiny. Period. And other ST characters never disobeyed orders and got promoted to captain. One of them got DEMOTED to captain.

It's patently absurd. As to the rest, it's the WAY Burnham is written, so self-righteous.

As far as not having stability from the top, I agree. But that isn't because of the revolving captain's chair. It's because of the chaotic leadership of the production (some of it actionable), especially in the early days. It put them in corners they still aren't able to write themselves out of convincingly, despite overhauling the entire premise, timeline and quadrant.

 

[Jason_V]

Not mutiny. Period. And other ST characters never disobeyed orders and got promoted to captain. One of them got DEMOTED to captain.

As to the rest, it's the WAY Burnham is written, so self-righteous.

As far as not having stability from the top, I agree. But that isn't because of the revolving captain's chair. It's because of the chaotic leadership of the production (some of it actionable), especially in the early days. It put them in corners they still aren't able to write themselves out of convincingly, despite overhauling the entire premise, timeline and quadrant.

Guess what? Kirk disobeyed orders or purposely didn’t follow an order quite a bit and got promoted to admiral between TAS and TMP. Picard disobeyed a direct order at least once (Insurrection) and led a mutiny against Admiral Doherty and became an admiral. Sisko was told to evacuate DS9 in early S2...which he did, but he led a small group of resistance fighters...he got promoted at the end of the following season. Half the crew of Voyager were mutineers in the Maquis and got Starfleet ranks and jobs.

I’ll give you the mutiny thing. But, again, the mutiny was three TV seasons ago and 900 Star Trek years ago. At some point, a mistake is paid for and the person who did it has a world of other experience and history to look back on.

 

[Museum Pieces]

Guess what? Kirk disobeyed orders or purposely didn’t follow an order quite a bit and got promoted to admiral between TAS and TMP. Picard disobeyed a direct order at least once (Insurrection) and led a mutiny against Admiral Doherty and became an admiral. Sisko was told to evacuate DS9 in early S2...which he did, but he led a small group of resistance fighters...he got promoted at the end of the following season. Half the crew of Voyager were mutineers in the Maquis and got Starfleet ranks and jobs.

Yes, but they were already in positions of command. They'd earned the right to do it through respect and good judgment. They were not repeatedly acting against the command structure of the ship they served on. And it didn't happen practically every other episode like it happens with Burnham, who at the end of it all got promoted to captain. Previous Trek series simply didn't persistently embrace irrationality the way Discovery does. That it's a product of its time doesn't make it any more palpable.

 

[Jason_V]

Yes, but they were already in positions of command. They'd earned the right to do it through respect and good judgment. They were not going against the command structure of the ship they served on. And it didn't happen practically every other episode like it happens with Burnham, who at the end of it all got promoted to captain. Previous Trek series simply didn't persistently embrace irrationality the way Discovery does. That it's a product of its time doesn't make it any more palpable.

Ah, so here we go. I provide example to prove you wrong and you throw another qualification into the mix. Fine.

All the previous leads have been the respective commanders of their ships. Fair.

Do you remember Redemption Part II where Data, in command of the Sutherland, disobeys a direct order from Picard? He was proven right in the end, obviously, but if we have to follow what our commanding officer has said, Data disobeyed.

It could be argued that Riker ordered Word not to kill Duras in Reunion...but he did anyway. It could also be argued Wesley was ordered, by Picard, to go to his quarters in Datalore...which he didn’t do.

Did Wesley have a history of good judgment a dozen episodes into the series? Nah.

Burnham doesn’t break the rules in practically every episode. If you said she whispers through the final act in practically every episode, or this crew hugs too much, I’d agree.

 

[Museum Pieces]

It's the way Burnham is so self-righteous about her beliefs when 1) she hasn't earned the rank; and 2) she is rarely accountable. Take Burnham off that show and a lot of my gripes go away.

And I didn't change the argument. I supported my argument, which you agreed was fair, so I'm not sure what that was about.

I disliked Wesley as much as Burnham; the difference: Wesley wasn't the friggin star of the show. Once again, it's apples and oranges.

If you said she whispers through the final act in practically every episode, or this crew hugs too much, I’d agree.

Hahahah. Yes. And IMO it's sympomatic of what I dislike about Burnham and the rest of the bridge crew. It's like it's Star Trek 90210.

Thanks for the great discussion without name calling and bullying. It's appreciated. The last word is yours (for now) ;-)

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The show is what the show is. It is internally consistent and works within the parameters it has set for itself. If someone has to tie themselves into knots to try to find a way to make it bearable rather than just being able to believe what happens onscreen, maybe it’s just not the show for them. Not every program has to be for every viewer and that’s okay.

 

[Museum Pieces]

The show is what the show is. It is internally consistent and works within the parameters it has set for itself. If someone has to tie themselves into knots to try to find a way to make it bearable rather than just being able to believe what happens onscreen, maybe it’s just not the show for them. Not every program has to be for every viewer and that’s okay.

And I just thanked Jason for no bullying. There was a reason for that and you all have just witnessed it.

I'll decide what's for me and what isn't, and allow you to do the same without my help. I will not be belittled by you or directed by you or anyone else. I have broken no rules and you are not the moderator.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

For goodness sakes calm down.

 

[Jason_V]

It's the way Burnham is so self-righteous about her beliefs when 1) she hasn't earned the rank; and 2) she is rarely accountable. Take Burnham off that show and a lot of my gripes go away.

And I didn't change the argument. I supported my argument, which you agreed was fair, so I'm not sure what that was about.

I disliked Wesley as much as Burnham; the difference: Wesley wasn't the friggin star of the show. Once again, it's apples and oranges.

Hahahah. Yes. And IMO it's sympomatic of what I dislike about Burnham and the rest of the bridge crew. It's like it's Star Trek 90210.

Thanks for the great discussion without name calling and bullying. It's appreciated. The last word is yours (for now) ;-)

I will never bully or name call. Either online or in person. They aren’t things I believe in.

We can for sure debate and disagree and do it cordially.

You and I will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Museum Pieces]

For goodness sakes calm down.

I'm not the one who needs to alter my repeated history of behavior. Not just on these threads but other threads. Go look at the Star Wars thread. A group of bullies ran people out of there on a rail if they didn't like The Last Jedi. Same on the MCU threads. And I'm not going to put up with it. So don't tell me to calm down.

Edit: And the people they ran off for being "wrong" turned out to be right! Rian Johnson is not directing anymore Star Wars movies.

 

[Neil Middlemiss]

If you have issues with posts in any thread, use the report button.

There has been no bullying posts in this thread.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Thank you Neil. Believe it or not, my comment wasn’t intended either to be directed at anyone specifically nor was it meant to be mean spirited. It’s simply this: Star Trek has been in existence for over half a century, and in that time, it’s taken on many forms and many attitudes and has been presented in a variety of ways. As the other Joshes have also said in this thread, and as I even reported the showrunners saying before the series even premiered, they can’t be beholden to everything that’s ever been done and still have room to tell a story. Discovery is made by different people, in a different time, in a different style and for a different kind of distribution than all of the Treks that came before. By definition, it won’t be exactly the same as what came before and I personally feel that’s the wrong standard to hold it to. I was having a rather pleasant chat with someone either in this or the other Trek thread maybe a week ago, and please forgive me because I forget who it was and I don’t want to misquote anyone, and the conversation was about how Discovery wasn’t working for him and he decided to drop it, and I related a similar story to how I did the same with a different show for much the same reasons. There’s no malice in any of these thoughts.

 

[Museum Pieces]

There has been no bullying posts in this thread.

This thread proves otherwise. You don't have to go back far to see a moderator threaten to expel people for precisely what I am speaking about. I know, because it was me who was again attacked for not liking DSC. So go ahead and convince yourselves you're in the right. The very threads on this forum, as well as apparent estranged forum members, suggest otherwise.

 

[DaveF]

This is a Star Trek Thread. If you’re looking for Monty Python, that’s down the hall.


If you’re looking for a Moderator, he’s here and suggests returning to Star Trek.

 

[Museum Pieces]

Thank you.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I wonder if we’ll be getting any Short Treks this off-season. I’d love to see one about the cat.

 

[Nelson Au]

Hard to decide to place this news in the Discovery or Picard thread. The new Paramount + promos have appeared on Trekmovie. I haven’t gone there yesterday and just saw this. Captain Pike is featured in both promos. And Picard’s voice can be heard.

Watch: Pike And Spock From ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Join Paramount+ Promos

Patrick Stewart narrates them too.

trekmovie.com