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CBS All Access Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (3 Viewers)

Jason_V

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I held off watching until Saturday night and, even at that point, I wasn't 100% excited for "Forget Me Not." I watched out of duty and not to fall behind.

By the end of the hour, I felt like I had gone on a roller coaster. Some really nice, sweet, quiet moments...some humor...and then the gut punch of the dinner scene. The biggest thing I realized early on is how relaxed and open Burnham is now. Gone are the shackles of the first two years; it looks like Martin-Green is having fun in the role. Maybe taking the show into the far future is helping that, along with the confidence from Season 2 and the somewhat lighter tone of the season. The scene where she's walking with Adira before going to Trill sold me on it.

Speaking of Trill...they're not my favorite species ever. Their whole problem with Adira, as far as I can tell, is she was a human host and unprepared for the joining. Sure, okay, got it. But we have at least two examples in Trill history (that Discovery doesn't know about) where humans made for a host: one temporary and one permanent. Will Riker in TNG's "The Host" and then Ezri between DS9's sixth and seventh season. Sure, they happened centuries in the past, but to exclude them from the conversation didn't feel right to me.

That being said, Adira's reunion with Gray pulled all the heart strings for me. Hit the right notes, told us enough about them as a couple and
"solved" this week's problem. I don't care that it felt like a TNG-VOY episode; not everything has to be shoot 'em ups. Besides, the motto of the franchise is still being serviced: the crew explored a strange new world (to them), found new life and new civilizations (to them) and went were no one has gone before. This is a people story.

And then we get to dinner. Holy heck, I wanted to hide because that was the most brutal dinner scene I think Trek has ever done. Snarky, mean, angry, barely controlled hostility. It felt wrong o have a Trek crew do this to one another, but also very right. This crew has been through the ringer more than most and they are fraying at the seams. This was, again, the right thing for this episode, even if it was hard to watch.

I am absolutely digging this season so far.
 

joshEH

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And then we get to dinner. Holy heck, I wanted to hide because that was the most brutal dinner scene I think Trek has ever done. Snarky, mean, angry, barely controlled hostility. It felt wrong o have a Trek crew do this to one another, but also very right. This crew has been through the ringer more than most and they are fraying at the seams. This was, again, the right thing for this episode, even if it was hard to watch.

Agreed. It makes the dinner-scene in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country look like happy afternoon tea and cucumber-sandwiches in comparison.
 

Josh Dial

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Speaking of Trill...they're not my favorite species ever. Their whole problem with Adira, as far as I can tell, is she was a human host and unprepared for the joining. Sure, okay, got it. But we have at least two examples in Trill history (that Discovery doesn't know about) where humans made for a host: one temporary and one permanent. Will Riker in TNG's "The Host" and then Ezri between DS9's sixth and seventh season. Sure, they happened centuries in the past, but to exclude them from the conversation didn't feel right to me.

One thing that helped me justify this plot point is that the Trill Symbiosis Commission was historically a bunch of liars. I assume they still are. They publicly stated that only one in a thousand Trills could be joined when, in fact, the rate is close to 50%. That lie appears to persist 900 years later. It's reasonable to assume that, in support of that lie, that the Trill powers-that-be would have expunged any reference to Riker's temporary hosting gig.

To the episode itself, I think it's further evidence that DISCO is the most emotionally honest show in the franchise.

Also, I love the way Wilson Cruz delivers his lines.
 

Jason_V

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Agreed. It makes the dinner-scene in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country look like happy afternoon tea and cucumber-sandwiches in comparison.

Ya know, I had even forgotten about that one. As uncomfortable as that scene was, I could half-justify it since it was Starfleet sitting down with a sworn enemy. The Disco scene...that was all Starfleet with Georgiou in the background.

One thing that helped me justify this plot point is that the Trill Symbiosis Commission was historically a bunch of liars. I assume they still are. They publicly stated that only one in a thousand Trills could be joined when, in fact, the rate is close to 50%. That lie appears to persist 900 years later. It's reasonable to assume that, in support of that lie, that the Trill powers-that-be would have expunged any reference to Riker's temporary hosting gig.

For sure it was very very temporary and being 900+ years in the past...maybe I'm just trying to find more reasons to not like Trill society...
 

AlexF

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But we have at least two examples in Trill history (that Discovery doesn't know about) where humans made for a host: one temporary and one permanent. Will Riker in TNG's "The Host" and then Ezri between DS9's sixth and seventh season. Sure, they happened centuries in the past, but to exclude them from the conversation didn't feel right to me.
Ezri wasn't human. She was a Trill.

From: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ezri_Dax

In 2375, Ezri was an ensign serving as an assistant ship's counselor aboard the USS Destiny when it was dispatched to Deep Space 9 on a medical emergency – to carry the Dax symbiont back to Trill following the death of its previous host, Jadzia Dax. En route, the symbiont took a turn for the worse, and, as the only Trill aboard, though one who had decided against joining, Ezri had little choice but to undergo the joining procedure, with only a fifteen-minute lecture from the ship's non-Trill surgeon to prepare her.

But Riker's temporary hosting only brings forward the fact that humans couldn't properly bond with Trill symbionts. At least, as of the late 2360s.
 

Jason_V

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Ezri wasn't human. She was a Trill.

From: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ezri_Dax

Fair. Thanks for reminding me...I had remembered Ezri as a human and not a Trill prior to joining.

But Riker's temporary hosting only brings forward the fact that humans couldn't properly bond with Trill symbionts. At least, as of the late 2360s.

Also fair. A quick line saying "we tried before and it didn't work" would have been more than enough to cover it in the episode, for me.
 

David Weicker

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Fair. Thanks for reminding me...I had remembered Ezri as a human and not a Trill prior to joining.



Also fair. A quick line saying "we tried before and it didn't work" would have been more than enough to cover it in the episode, for me.
I interpreted them saying that Human Trill connections don't work implied that there were prior (failed) attempts. Otherwise they would have said we don't know if they work.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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The thing is, only ~40-45 percent of Trill humanoids were compatible hosts for joining with a symbiont. Even if humanity was a similarly high percentage compatibility, Riker could have simply been one of the other 55 percent.

It's also possible that the 32nd century medbot had more advanced surgical techniques for facilitating the join that the time-honored traditions used on Trill.
 

Josh Dial

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Again, I think what's being overlooked is the Trill Symbiosis Commission is a bunch of liars. They lied to their own people by saying only 1/1000 of all Trills could be joined. All to maintain the cultural power dynamic. It doesn't matter what has or hasn't worked in the past--the Trill will just lie. It's a rare instance of something in Star Trek not being a plot hole: it's just a species lying about its past!
 

Johnny Angell

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Again, I think what's being overlooked is the Trill Symbiosis Commission is a bunch of liars. They lied to their own people by saying only 1/1000 of all Trills could be joined. All to maintain the cultural power dynamic. It doesn't matter what has or hasn't worked in the past--the Trill will just lie. It's a rare instance of something in Star Trek not being a plot hole: it's just a species lying about its past!
When did they say the lie?
 

Nelson Au

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Hey guys, I know there’s going to be a new episode today so that’s the focus now.

I’ve gone back and I am rewatching the entire first season. I had revisited the pilot and final episodes of the season because I wanted to re-watch how Mirror Georgiou was fitted into the end of the season and how she was so motherly to Burnham Prime. This is because they were still playing that motherly role for Georgiou as they search for Bernham and then she finds them.

I felt the need to watch the rest of the season. It’s interesting how people initially picked up the clues for Tyler and Lorca‘s characters true identities. I can sort of see it better now for Tyler. I’ve just rewatched the episode where the crew has entered the Mirror universe and made the changes necessary to fit into the Terran Empire. I saw the insert shot of Lorca setting the course right before Stamets makes the jump for the starbase. I still didn’t see that looking sinister. But I did see that he did cause the result of them ending up in the Mirror universe. Lorca played it well. So it’s been fun revisiting the season.

It’s going by fast and it was also good to revisit the storyline for L‘Rell and Voq. And as I said in the DS9 thread, it makes The Trouble With Tribbles reveal of Arne Darvin more interesting. Do you think poor whimpy Darvin could have gone through that transformation? It made me think now, I can‘t watch The Trouble with Tribbles or Trials and Tribble ations without the idea of how Ash Tyler was made. :)
 

Adam Lenhardt

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DISCUSSION AHEAD (AND POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR):
3x05 - "Die Trying"

After a very unconventional start to the season, it seems (at the moment at least) like it's positioning itself to be a more traditional Star Trek show going forward; Discovery is once again operating within Starfleet's hierarchy, the A plot was an episodic away mission, and -- as Discovery is the only ship with significant FTL travel capability -- a framework that would support stories about Discovery boldly going into the unknown.

On the other hand, this is a very different Starfleet operating alongside a vastly diminished Federation. Instead of a vast bureaucracy, it seems to operate as a military autocracy with one man, Oded Fehr's Admiral Charles Vance, as the sole top-level decision maker. He seems measured and reasonable, but that's a lot of trust for Discovery and her crew to place in a man they've never met. Especially since successfully mass producing spore drives would change the balance of power in a galaxy that neither trusts nor has much access to dilithium.

I do love the 32nd century Starfleet uniforms, though. Much like the Wrath of Khan through Undiscovered Country Starfleet uniforms, they feel like real military uniforms rather than costumes on a TV show. I wonder if the crew of Discovery will upgrade their wardrobe at some point. At the very least, get the 32nd century combadges instead of their clip-on Starfleet insignia.

Some fun little glimpses in this one, like the NCC-74656-J. Everything from the TNG through "Picard" era is in this show's past now, so they don't need to shy away from referencing it. I liked that it was a future Voyager and not a future Enterprise that was one of the surviving ships; that would have made the universe feel too small, and given the nature of past Enterprises' assignments, the odds are very low that whichever Enterprise was in service at the time of the Burn wouldn't have had its warp core active when everything went boom.

It looks like we have a parallel season-long mystery with the inexplicably prevalent musical tune that keeps popping up since they've arrived in the 32nd century. Perhaps the tune and the Burn are connected.

Since Rachael Ancheril is credited as a series regular this season, it's pretty obvious that Command Nhan won't be gone for long. The temporary write out was a bit of a headscratcher, though; the only thing keeping Dr. Attis from seeking treatment was his desire to keep vigil over his family. Couldn't they have just loaded their bodies onto a shuttle, used the spore drive to pop over to Barzan II, drop him off with the bodies for a proper burial, and then pick him up later? Having Nhan see the mission through with the seed ship makes sense, but I don't know why they didn't just use that as the reason without all of the other complicating factors.

...Holy crap, that was Cronenberg. This just made my whole freakin’ week.
And, judging by the condition we find Mirror Georgiou in at the end of the episode, he's playing a very Cronenberg-esque character -- some sort of mad scientist type, and perhaps the leader of Section 31 in the 32nd century.
 

Josh Dial

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While the Admiral, Saru, and Michael are in the...lobby (?), the central map/view screen had a bunch of planet and system names scrolling. One of them was "Founders Homeworld" (but it was displayed "in reverse" because the perspective (right side of my screenshot):

Disco 1.jpg
 

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