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Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by David S. Peterson, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Message #2541 of 2737 Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    Carabimero

    Carabimero Producer
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    Bottom line, better writers know how to get exposition out of the way before the big action scene. Lesser writers don't. Misplaced exposition is a failure of writing; extended driver staring is a failure of directing. And IMO, it all starts with the writing.

    Johnson was trying to turn all the conventions he could on their heads. IMO, given the context--that he was directing the second act of a three-act play--he was largely unsuccessful. And I fear the entire trilogy, when all is said and done, will be sadly out of balance because of it.
     
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  2. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

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    Oh great, another "I'm a real fan" fan. Didn't we get rid of the lot of you in between seasons? Just admit you're wrong and be done with it.
     
  3. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Alan, agreed. I don’t know why Johnson felt the need to up-end so much of what Abrams set up. But that’s an entirely different thread where no, I have gone before.
     
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  4. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Big night tonight!

    I may not get to it until later in the weekend, unfortunately, but to everyone watching tonight and in the coming days - it has been an absolute pleasure to get to share this show with you this season. Thank you for a phenomenal journey.
     
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  5. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    My question is, if you're doing renovations, why the hell would you go from this:
    dsc-214-trail-14.
    ...to this:
    ef43504e55cf8ccc51e44697dbe4d457.
    Seems like a massive step backwards to me.
     
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  6. Message #2546 of 2737 Apr 18, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
    Carabimero

    Carabimero Producer
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    And this among other things makes it impossible to explain why Pike ends up in a wheelchair, when clearly the technology in DSC is far superior to TOS. That's the problem with wanting your cake and eating it too. They wanted the gravitas of the pre-TOS timeline but didn't want to even remotely play by its visual rules. That's one of the reasons DSC was delayed, because marketers refused to produce toys based on DSC concepts that didn't even remotely resemble TOS Trek. And it may well be the same thing delaying the Picard series.
     
  7. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I have no problem buying Pike in a wheelchair. He was clearly exposed to a type of radiation for which there is no treatment possible. This doesn't strike me as a stretch. Here in 2019, we have incredible medical advances and can cure and treat so many different ailments and maladies that generations ago would be fatal; but there are still some things we can't do anything for.

    While I expect things will continue to get better in the future, I would imagine that there will always be things that can't be fixed. Pike's injuries in the 20th century would have killed him instantly; that he's alive in any form in the 23rd century is probably a testament to the advances they would have then.

    I also have no problem reconciling the two different takes on the bridge. Roddenberry did the best he could with the knowledge he had at the time he was working on his show and with the resources they had; Discovery does the best it can do with the knowledge and resources they have. To my eyes, it's clearly meant to represent the same place and I don't need to give it any more thought than that.
     
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  8. Message #2548 of 2737 Apr 18, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
    Carabimero

    Carabimero Producer
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    SPOILER BELOW




    I want to thank the writers of season two of DSC for personally erasing virtually all trace of it from the TOS-Prime timeline. I said from day one it didn't belong there. Nice to know the incredible writers of season two agreed with me, and had the skill to create a fun season just to expunge it :). It was so satisfying to see it go bye bye.

    Apparently sanity has returned to Star Trek.

    It's not that. I think it was the way the accident was portrayed in the flashback. It wasn't anything as severe as I imagined it from the recounting of it in The Menagerie. Much less serious, IMO. What I'm saying is, what I saw in the DSC flashback about what happened to Pike didn't look like it was serious enough to leave him in a wheelchair given the current state of the art. I expected the accident to be much more gruesome, like the images of his face melting were in the second vision.
     
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  9. Jason_V

    Jason_V Lead Actor

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    100% agreed, Josh. Even into TNG S1, we saw Admiral Jameson in a wheelchair. If medical science in the future could solve everything, no one would ever die...leading to a much bigger problem. The fact Pike is in a wheelchair is immaterial to me and makes perfect sense no matter which universe we're playing in.

    I'm not gonna use the words you used, but yes, the final act of "Such Sweet Sorrow II" hit this and hit it hard. And I appreciated the hell out of it. Aside from the visual things that don't match, this is going to be pretty seamless continuity-wise.

    Random thoughts on the finale:

    - I know I shouldn't be thinking this, but...damn...this episode cost a crap ton of money to make. It was nearly wall to wall action and played like a "greatest hits" of guest stars from Discovery S2. Almost unknowingly, the show created it's own little stable of recurring guest stars and "family," much like the other shows.

    - Likely my favorite finale aside from "Best of Both Worlds I" and "Call to Arms." I enjoy most of the others for different reasons, but this was on a totally different level. I'm not ashamed to admit I was crying through the final act.

    - In the debriefing scenes, when we never saw the face of the questioner, was anyone else wondering if we were in for a huge, big, massive reveal of who that was?

    - This whole season has basically been a scavenger hunt finding the pieces needed to bring Discovery into the future. I really dig it and think this season is going to have immense rewatchability in the years to come.

    - I wonder who is and isn't coming back next season. The way the episode ended I can see a whole lot of regulars exiting stage right.

    More later once everyone else has had a chance to watch.
     
  10. Greg.K

    Greg.K Screenwriter

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    Yes.. I couldn't figure that one out.

    - It was silly that that one small stuck open blast door could mean the difference between losing the entire ship instead of the quarter or so of the saucer that they did lose. And that Pike could watch the torpedo blow from right outside the door without it affecting him. That was one mighty door, they should have made the whole ship out of that!

    - Lots more of the endless dialog and goodbyes when they really didn't have time.

    - The paradox of Michael knowing where to go back to place the signals because that's where the signals were... well... would probably make a good Doctor Who story where that sort of thing isn't expected to be taken too seriously. Not so sure about Trek.

    - I really want season 3 to be Pike's Enterprise and not Discovery: Voyager. Ah well.
     
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  11. Message #2551 of 2737 Apr 18, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
    Mrs. Carab

    Mrs. Carab Auditioning

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    I thought it was breathless fun. But honestly, I want to stay on the Enterprise with Pike, Spock and Number One!

    Edit: I just watched it a second time. When the DSC is going through the wormhole, the effect reminded me of the wormhole from The Motion Picture. I liked that.

    I also liked what I thought were solar panels on the Golden Gate.

    But probably my favorite was the last shot of the Enterprise. I think it was a reverse homage to one of the "first" shot sever of the Enterprise where we drop from above down through the dome of the bridge and see and see Jeffrey Hunter and Leonard Nimoy. Very cool.

    I know I was late to the party but it's been fun. I'll be back for the Picard series and DSC season three. Thanks everybody for making me feel so welcome.
     
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  12. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Hey Josh- right back at you! See you after you get to see the finale.
     
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  13. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

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    Guys, that was wall to wall action!



    As you guys have already said, the events of the Red Angel was there to set up where Burnham has to go to resolve the problem. The chicken and the egg thing. I don’t always go for that kind of set-up. But I’ll go with this if that’s what they had to do to resolve the plot.

    I didn’t want to see the Admiral go either. I knew the Klingons would show up! A lot of oh-no moments and I’m also wondering if Geogiou was able to stop Leland in the Spore Drive chamber, was that enough to keep them from jumping to the future? I guess not. Leland was always going to be a threat.

    As for the debriefing scenes. That was quite another General Order to never speak of Discovery! If they take that under advisement. I thought the person they were all debriefing to was Leland. His mouth had that look. Maybe his twin.

    Will Stamets live? What happens now? They are in the beta quadrant. Will season three open with them popping in there? Does Michael find Mom?

    I’m glad to see the Bryan Fuller timeline erased and the TOS timeline cleaned up and restored. If only the Abrams films could do that. ( by the way, I noticed the pointed sideburns are all taking on that Kelvin timeline look. ). I’d hoped after the Enterprise was refitted in space dock, it would be cleaner and in line with TOS. But I guess there’s that 15% rule at play. The producers had one more trick up their sleeve to hammer home TOS was back with the melding of the Alexander Courage theme with the Discovery theme at the end. That was one heck of an Ex Deus Machina.

    How is Georgiou going to get her own series? Maybe there’s enough juice in the time suit crystal to bring them or some of them back. But how it ended, that doesn’t seem possible, the Discovery amd crew is declared lost.
     
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  14. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    I don't agree the timeline was cleaned up. Suppressed yes, but the Michael/Spock relationship still exists, as do the events of Season 1 and the technology that made the spore drive possible. As is all the other tech that exceeded the TOS continuity on display for the past two seasons.

    The casting of the Enterprise crew exceeded expectations and I would much rather see further adventures with them.

    Man the money that they are throwing at this series! Impressive technically but often emotionally inert and not just the battle sequences in this episode but throughout the series.
     
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  15. Message #2555 of 2737 Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
    Carabimero

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    The timeline was "officially" cleaned up. I was laughing out loud with glee. It was such a pleasure to listen to Spock wipe away that steaming turd from the TOS prime timeline. Now, officially, as far as Starfleet history is concerned, DSC has been expunged. That's a damning condemnation of season one. There was no other reason to do it except to say to fans, "We're sorry about that. So we're obliterating it from the official canon and we're gonna take the ship and its crew and put them in a different quadrant and in a different time, where they should have been in the first place."

    After the absurd writing and ridiculous context of season one, season two and its climax was supremely satisfying.
     
  16. GlennC

    GlennC Extra

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    How can a 65 minute episode seem like 3 hours long?

    The effects were superb but unfortunately the story was absolute garbage.

    Add the Replicators from SG1 and droids from Star Wars into the mix and that is what you get.

    How on earth can one manual door closing be the difference between blowing up or saving the ship?

    The only saving grace in this whole mess was Discovery disappearing and Pike, Spock and the Enterprise at the end.

    Please CBS; dump Discovery and stick with them.
     
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  17. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

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    I thought the season 2 finale was absolutely thrilling and completely entertaining from start to finish. Between the length (especially when coupled with part 1) and the budget, the finale felt like a Star Trek movie.

    The production quality was so high that it highlighted the limitations of previous Star Trek series.

    The space battle was easily the best we've seen on Star Trek. We've seen instances of one star ship physically blocking/protecting another ship, but the Enterprise blocking Discovery sequence was legitimately beautiful.

    The zero-gravity corridor battle was crazy. Not quite Inception-level, but certainly the best zero-g battle I've seen on television. It also answers the question of "why does localized gravity never go out during battle?" It does: we just never see it because of budget reasons.

    Even the 10-second sequence of Tilly in a Jefferies Tube managed to be different and exciting. Sick bay was (appropriately) organized chaos. The amount of causalities and ship damage finally felt real. When we hear characters says things like, "damage to decks 4 and 5" or "casualty reports coming in from all over the ship" it certainly sounds bad--here we got to see just how bad it is. The torpedo damage explains why the Enterprise conference room looks different in TOS: it was a remodel.

    Blue phasers!

    I was legitimately surprised by the time loop reveal (some of the red bursts were actually Michael jumping back in time to put pieces in motion so they could succeed in the battle against Control). Like most Star Trek time travel stories I don't think it stands up to much scrutiny, but it was oh so much fun. In another Christopher Nolan-esque nod, I thought the actual red angle time warp mechanic was very reminiscent of Interstellar. The first jump was a nice homage to 2001's Jupiter and Beyond the Infinite sequence.

    I think season 2 will be highly re-watchable. I'm planing on re-watching both parts of the finale today.
     
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  18. Jason_V

    Jason_V Lead Actor

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    I get that one and it is weird, for sure. But in this show where 200+ shuttles and worker bee shuttles show up or are replicated seemingly instantly, I'm gonna go with it.

    Nothing was cleaned up. Season 1 and Season 2 still "happened" even if no one can talk publicly about them and information is suppressed at Starfleet. It. All. Happened. It's official canon. It has been conveniently put into a box and left on a shelf in a basement office somewhere, but it all still happened. Just like the Kelvin-universe Vulcan blowing up doesn't mean the Prime Universe Vulcan did the same thing. Prime Vulcan is still around; Kelvin Vulcan isn't.

    The last line, Carabimero, I agree with. Almost 1k years in the future is where this show should always have been...most of us agree on that. Based on an interview with Kurtzman I read this morning, they all get that, too. It's been fun playing in the pre-TOS sandbox, but they want to be rid of continuity and canon issues. Hallelujah, I say.

    And sign me up for a Pike/Number One/Spock series. That would be hella fun.
     
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  19. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    Giorgiou killing Leland/Control made the future jump unnecessary.
     
  20. Message #2560 of 2737 Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
    Greg.K

    Greg.K Screenwriter

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    I'm guessing they had a rotating corridor set built? I did like that scene.

    They should have had one of those worker robots close the door! Gah. Plan B should have been to get one of those in place.
     
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