square vs round subs ...

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeff.bart, Sep 23, 2002.

  1. Jeff.bart

    Jeff.bart Stunt Coordinator

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    I've narrowed down my sub purchase to a Hsu 2 or comparable SVS and I've read all the posts here on the two. But I was wondering: does the shape lend certain characteristics to each of the subs in question? Noticeable strengths and/or weaknesses. Or does it not really matter? I can't seem to get a good read on that.
     
  2. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    A square cabinet requires more bracing, as the corners need extra reinforcement to handle the highest levels of pressure that accumulate there.

    OTOH, a circular (really cylindrical) design carries equal pressure at all points, meaning you don't need additional bracing.

    For enclosure volume, you will get a smaller "floor footprint" with a cylindrical enclosure, but you'll trade off height.


    Regards,
     
  3. Chris Carswell

    Chris Carswell Supporting Actor

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    John hit all the points. Since you won't be "building" the sub it really doesn't matter that much though.
    My .02, get the SVS. You won't be sorry [​IMG]
     
  4. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Worded a little differently.

    Well built box (doesn't flex) vs a cylinder. If everything else is the same, they will sound the same.

    Poorly built box (flexes) vs a cylinder. If everything else is the same the cylinder will do better.

    For the reasons John stated cylinders don't need bracing. So unless you use a crap material it's pretty hard to screw up the cylinder.

    The box on the other hand needs thick walls and properly done bracing. If it doesn't have this then it will flex which is not good. Essentially trying to get into the shape of a cylinder or sphere. And if you already are a cylinder or sphere, well you can't flex anymore.

    Bottom line though is the Hsu subs are very well built boxes, and the SVS are well made cylinders with very solid endcaps. Both are great and won't affect the sound (net volume, ports/tuning, driver and amps will though).
     
  5. Jeff.bart

    Jeff.bart Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the explanation. I was leaning toward Hsu, but then I read that the SVS can be tuned down to 22 hz. Does that mean the bass can extend that far down without distortion, thereby exceeding the 25 hz "bottom" on the Hsu? I'd like to get as close to 20 as possible (for the least amount of money, of course). I listen mostly to jazz and classical and want to make sure I get the full reach of the bass. I am less concerned about blowing my house down on movies. So does is there an advantage to getting an SVS in light of my preferences? Or will the Hsu take care of my needs just as well?
     
  6. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    The tuning point isn't a brick wall (16, 20 and 25 hz for the SVS PCi models). The sub produces sound well below tuning, it's just that the level of that bass falls off really quickly.
    16-46PCi is in purple, 20-39PCi is in red, and the 25-31PCi is in light blue
    [​IMG]
    The different Hsu models will have similar graphs. I think VTF2 is tuned to 32hz and 25hz with a port plugged. The VTF3 is tuned to 22hz and 18hz with a port plugged.
    Another option would be the Adire Dharman. Has the same port config as the VTF3 and would result in the same tuning frequencies if a port was plugged or not.
    Also, I don't know of any jazz that has anything under 25hz and there isn't a lot of classical with info that low either. Pipe organ stuff is an exception though (in which case you'd want a 16hz or 18hz tuning).
     
  7. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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  8. Jon Cheung

    Jon Cheung Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, comparing square subs to circle subs, the square subs have more surface area rather than the circle. It's not a noticable size difference but with the same amount of power going to both subs, the square will be 0.5-1.0db's louder.
     
  9. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Hehe, I don't think he's talking about those sqaure drivers Jon. He's asking about the difference between cylinders and boxes as enclosures for a sub.

    I can't remember what they are, but aren't there some significant draw backs to the square driver that out weigh the benefits of the greater surface area (unless the goal is SPLs).
     
  10. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    Shape doesn't affect the subwoofers sound.

    Shape affects the stuctural integrity which is why a 6 panel box uses internal bracing and a 3 panel water heater doesn't.
     
  11. Jon Cheung

    Jon Cheung Stunt Coordinator

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    Ahh I gotcha sorry about that. Hey I've been wondering the same thing too, what's better cylinder or square??
     
  12. Jon Cheung

    Jon Cheung Stunt Coordinator

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    If your going to compete for SPL, go with a square driver, but this is car audio I'm talking about hehehe. I'm a car audio fanatic.
     
  13. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Ah, I'd just go with a few of these for SPL :p)
    http://www.adireaudio.com/Merchant2/...uct_Code=BEX15
    8.4L Vd (using 56mm Xmag to calculate it with a 750cm^2 Sd, for SPL comp who cares about SQ, although with in linear range, 27mm, this driver will sound incredible) and 3200W RMS power handling [​IMG]
     
  14. Jon Cheung

    Jon Cheung Stunt Coordinator

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    I KNEW IT!!! man the brahma 15 extreme is amazing!!!! i've heard that Dan Wiggins just put that there so this guy that's sponsered with adire can use it in competitions because you can't compete with a sub not avialable to the public. Hey, i've always thought of this, would it be hard to put a Brahma 15 or 12 in home audio???
     
  15. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    One problem is the amp, with those twin 2ohm VC there aren't many good 2ch amps stable at 2ohms. The other is the high Fs. But Dan has given several suggestions for home use allignments using a Brahma
    But if you haven't seen this yet, it will be cheaper than a Brahma, have significantly more Vd, and a single 4ohm VC.
    http://www.acoustic-visions.com/tumult.htm
    Will hopefully be available very soon.
     
  16. Jon Cheung

    Jon Cheung Stunt Coordinator

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    WOW that is incredable!!! I was always thinkin about just buying a brahma and this amp, building a box for it and putting it in my house to see how it sounds, if I had the money to throw around of course.
    The amp is at this site
    http://www.adireaudio.com/Merchant2/...tegory_Code=60
     

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