splitting 10's at a blackjack table (1 Viewer)

[GregoryM]

Why would anyone get upset about another blackjack player playing badly? Do they think the poor player is somehow going to infect them with bad luck? Are they just offended by the poor play? I can't imagine that anyone who understands the odds well enough to know the most efficient way to play, and thus recognizes foolish play in others, would think that another player's poor play affects the odds of their getting a desirable/undesirable card in any measurable way.

 

[LewB]

I've been playing blackjack at the casinos (AC,Connecticut,Vegas) since AC opened (circa 1980?). If the dealer is say showing a 6 and the last player (3rd base) has a hand of 12-16, the theory is that you shouldn't take a card if the dealer has to draw and your drawing a card could put you over 21. Why take yourself out if you don't have to? The other players feel that the offender 'took away' the dealer's bust card . Problem is that they fail to remember the times that this 'bad' play made them money! some 'observations' in no particular order (BTW, I'm a basic strategy robot myself).

• The players on the east coast are the most likely to chastise a 'bad' player
• The worst (not basic strat) players I've ever seen were in Las Vegas
• If playing basic strategy makes you feel like a robot, get up and do something else. You are here to have fun, right ?
• Realize that the casino WILL get their fair share of your money. They figure that the casino hold from a basic strategy player is around 2.5% I think. Look around, does your house look like theirs ?
• Basic strategy gives you the best bet to minimize the house edge over 'the long run'. The long run means millions of theoretical hands.
• You are at the casino to enjoy yourself, if you are getting upset over what's going on at the tables, you need to stop playing, get a drink, a meal and see a show !

OK, I'm done ranting/preaching !

 

[Brad_V]

For one-deck on the higher-limit tables, people often simply prefer single-deck, so the casinos are going to give people with money whatever they want. Usually at single-deck, the dealer will shuffle after every hand or two, so the only way to win at all would be to play at a full table, sit at the last spot, and then make your playing decisions based on being able to see all the other players' cards before you have to make your play.

Plus, single-deck is usually watched like a hawk by the casino, so you have to be very good to count cards while pretending you're not counting cards. Any 12-year-old can learn to count cards. It's the putting on "the act" and getting away with it under pressure that's the hard part.

 

[Brian Perry]

Denward raised a good point about card counting. In addition to the stress of keeping track of the count, the basic strategy also changes depending on the count. That's one of the reasons why I don't berate someone who doesn't play "correctly" -- their play may actually be correct based on other factors. (Although I agree splitting 10s is a no-no in any scenario.)

 

[Joel Mack]

the basic strategy also changes depending on the count.

I don't believe the playing strategy changes, only the betting strategy. Bet high when the count is in your favor, and low when it is not.

 

[Brian Perry]

I don't believe the playing strategy changes, only the betting strategy. Bet high when the count is in your favor, and low when it is not.

No, the playing strategy also changes, albeit slightly. For example, if your count showed a very high number of tens left in the deck, you would not hit a 12 with a dealer 3, whereas normal basic strategy would dictate that you hit.

 

[Tim Johnson]

Do like I did:
Double on a hard 13. The dealer will look at you like you are nuts, had to all the pit boss over and everythign before she would let me do it. And, what did she throw me?
An 8.
There is a reason it's called "gambling"

 

[Joel Mack]

Double on a hard 13.

I was playing at The Venetian one night when I was in Vegas, and this Russian guy and his girlfriend were at the table with me. This guy must've doubled on a hard 13 about 10 times while I was there. I'm not positive it was every single one, but he busted darn near every time. Lost a couple of hundred each time, too. I wish I had that kind of jack...
"Doubling on a breaking hand!" - I heard that a lot...

 

[JohnS]

Ryan Peter,

the $300 minimum table played a 1 deck shoe. Their $10 tables used multi deck shoes. Why is that? Doesn't the house stand to lose more playing a countable deck on a high rollers table

I work at Orleans NOT Bellagio. But Warner Bros did use some of our dealers for the movie.
Alot of casinos have different tabl;e amounts with either one deck, two deck or multi deck shoes.
It just depends.
We had a guy(just this weekend) playing on a two deck and MULTI-DECK shoe for $5,000 a pop.
funny note: Guy started with $500, worked it up to $200,000. tipped the dealers $50,000 and then LOST ALL OF IT!
Yeah Splitting 10's is a big NO-NO in Vegas.
Especially at my table.
There are ALOT of things your suppose to do and not to do.
Being a Blackjack dealer for over 5 years, I've seen it all.
There are certain rules you should follow, but ALSO with me, I'm a card counter(it comes natural)
But not in the card counting fashion you've come to know.
I look for patterns of cards.
It really works, as I help people make alot of money that way.
I have a young couple that drives in from California all the time, just to play at my table.
Follow the rules, and you should do okay
Any questions that people have, feel free to ask.

 

[Howard Williams]

Not that anyone asked but here is many "system" for winning at Black Jack.

Casinos are kinda like video poker machines. They each have slightly different rules. Pick one, any one, then find the basic strategy chart designed for those rules. Practice at home. Drill yourself until you know how to play every combination correctly. Do this until you can make the decision automatically. It should be second nature to you. Until you can do this, don't even get any chips. One strange thing for me is I like to watch. When I go to Las Vegas I spend about 80% of my time watching other players especially those betting substantial amounts (>$25). Gamblers are by far the most superstitious people in the world. I have to admit,I'm a little superstitious too but I realize it doesn't help. For example, if I had a good day, I'll wear the same clothes the next day or if I found a dealer that hooked me up, I'll look for them again, etc.

Now your almost ready to go to the casino and play. In addition to basic strategy there are at least two more essential components to winning at Black Jack. Money Management and determining each bet amount. Anything worth studying should be studied as a science. There are rules for both. They start to get a little too complicated for me to recite and follow verbatim, so I try to just understand the principle behind them and follows those.

As far as bet determination, JohnS hit the nail right on the head. Look for patterns. The key is betting more while you're winning and less while you're losing. You have to be able to spot your streaks and the dealers. Sometimes you get pat hands a lot. Sometimes you get 12-16 a lot. Sometimes the dealer breaks a lot. Sometimes it seems like the deal never breaks no matter what is up card is. If you can just kinda keep track of these trends and change your bet accordingly, you can increase your chances of coming out ahead in the long run, but remember, no matter what the amount, no matter what the situation, "PLAY THE HAND CORRECTLY !!!" If you're constantly stressing over decisions, you're probably not winning and you probably aren't having any fun even if you are. Streaks are by nature kinda short so you gotta get in there and get outta there quickly.

 

[Howard Williams]

Any questions that people have, feel free to ask

Hey JonhS:
What the weirdest thing you've ever seen a player do.

What the weirdest play you've ever seen a player make. I saw a guy hit 17 !!! Honest. Dealer had an ace up. The dealer questioned him and he insisted. Of course he busted. That was weird.

 

[StephenK]

Howard,

As long as it was a soft 17 (17 with an ace), its not that bad an idea. You have a 31% chance of staying the same. Another 31% chance of making it better and a 38% chance of making it worse, but then you can decide to hit again after that.

If it was a hard 17, then I agree it was weird. Then again I see [edit]People stay on 12-16 vs a dealer 7-10 all the time in Atlantic City.

Steve

 

[Howard Williams]

Of course you're correct about the soft 17. I should have clarified that it was a hard 17.

 

[JohnS]

What the weirdest thing you've ever seen a player do.

DOUBLEDOWN on Blackjack!

 

[KyleS]

DOUBLEDOWN on Blackjack!

How much had this guy had to drink? Was he just not paying attention and wanted to double down on about everything or did he somehow count his cards wrong?

KyleS

 

[Denward]

IMO, this is a very superstitious, unscientific approach. The deck doesn't know that it's on a streak so the fact that you've won or lost 5 hands in a row has no effect on the correct bet or play for the next hand.

I think what JohnS meant by patterns of cards is that instead of keeping a running card count in his head, he just notes that very many or very few 10s have been played.

 

[Joel Mack]

Gamblers are by far the most superstitious people in the world.

That's no joke. My blackjack superstitions are few, but I'm a complete freak at the craps table.

 

[Howard Williams]

Denward:

I think you're referring to the rule of independent variables, which I'm well aware of. That might not be the correct name but it says that for example if you flip a coin and it comes up heads 9 times in a row, the odds of heads coming up on the next flip is still 50/50. That is true for sure but if i had been betting a dollar on the first 9 flips, I'd be willing to bet $20 on tails the very next flip a lot more than I would be willing to bet $20 on tails the second or third flip. Things tend to even out over the long or medium run. They have to. That's what the odds dictate. The only reason that strategy isn't feasible is because of the table limits and your bank roll, but the method does work.

If you play the hands correctly few people lose all the time, even over a "short run" (20 hands). Yeah, you hit spots where you lose not matter what you do but there are times when you win almost no matter what you do. You can lose 10-20 hands in a row but on average I bet the average smart player wins at least 33% of the time. It all kinda evens out over the medium and long run and I don't mean 1 million hands.

Allow me the following hypothetical scenario. You play 30 hands. In the first 10, you lose 10 in a row. In the next 10 you only win twice so after 20 hands your 2 and 18. Let's say you were betting $5 per hand, consistently. I'm saying that in the next 10 hands you have a good chance of winning 5 or six hands no matter what card you get as long as you play them correctly. So when I finally do win I'm ready to increase my bet, maybe even let it ride. The more exaggerated your streak is at one end, the more exaggerate it must be at the other. The force must be balanced. The surest way to lose is to bet the same amount all day long.

 

[Glen_L]

I'm usually able to figure out why basic strategy is the correct way to play, but there is one exception that has me stumped. With a pair of 7's in hand, you're supposed to split if the dealer shows 2-7, and stay if the dealer shows 8-9 or an A. When the dealer shows a 10/face card, things get weird. In a single deck game, you're supposed to stand, multiples you hit. On any other 14 with a dealer showing a 10/face you hit. Why should you stand on a pair of 7's with the dealer showing a 10?

Any brave soul have an explanation for this?

 

[Howard Williams]

The down and dirty answer behind any decision made using basic strategy is "because it increases your odds of winning". There are probably people here that can recite those odds in their sleep. I'm not one of them though.

The basic idea behind those odds are that against 8-A, your probably gonna lose any-ways so why lose 2 hands instead of just one, therefore, just hit. The dealer is more likely to not need cards to complete his hand.

Against 2-7 the dealers is more likely to need to complete his hand. By splitting, your are more likely to improve yours. Or something like that.

NEVERMIND. I now see that I didn't even address the question you posed. Sorry.