Special Announcement regarding the third Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection (1 Viewer)

[Joe*A]

Because "logic is in the mind of the beholder".

As soon as I read this news item in TVonDVD.com I knew it was going to stir up all kinds of resentment towards the studio. Sad but funny too.

 

[Chas_Michael]

Cartoons, hmmmm, Maybe it's the kiddies. MTV Gangstas have become Gods to our 2+ generation. WE wouldn't want to cloud the image with a few cartoons.

 

[TravisR]

As I said earlier, there are different divisions of WB that handle their home video releases. T&J is not handled by the film division. The film division (apparently) chooses to release what they want but the division handling T&J are too cowardly to release cartoons aimed at adults. In other words, one company has two different policies which is the stupidest aspect of this all.

The Looney Tunes cartoons are not handled by the same division as T&J so I wouldn't say that you won't see any of the offensive LT cartoons.

EDIT: All in all, I find the Mammy and blackface jokes completely unfunny and not because they're offensive but because they're shitty jokes. However, I'm smart enough to make a choice between what I want to watch and what I don't want to watch so WB shouldn't make the choice for me.

 

[DeWilson]

Becuase it's in a different context.

 

[WillG]

Well, where are they? We're coming on the fifth G.C. and not one of the "Banned" cartoons has been released thus far even though WB knows the demand to see them is there. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Corey3rd]

you might think the T&J set is for adults, but I've seen parents slap them into the mini-van's DVD player to keep the kids quiet.

 

[Mark Anthony]

I cannot believe that after loads of complaints, two seperate recalls and a general feeling that the two previous spotlights were handled by idiots without a clue of what they could have been, they have decided to do this.

As much as I abhore censorship, if it was that big an issue, why not just edit the scenes in question rather than omit the 'toon's altogether - which is as bad if not worse.

They have set a very, very bad precedent on so many levels and and have shown that if nothing else, whoever has overseen these releases, really, really knows how to piss off a good number of people who would have bought them.

If WB don't come through with a complete unedited box set of all the T&J toon's expressly for the collector, perhaps with some supplements worth watching, they are doing the history of their animated holdings an injustice beyond belief and necessity.

This is a disgrace, an utter disgrace. I am fuming.

M

 

[Jari K]

Totally agree. It´s amazing how badly Warner treats these Tom & Jerry classics and at the same time does a great job with their classics films..

Btw, some decent info about the "Tom & Jerry censorship" (with screencaps) can be found here:
http://www.worldwidedvdforums.com/kb...article&k=1045

I believe "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" shorts ARE included in the R2 UK 5-disc "Complete Collectors Edition" by Warner Bros..

 

[dana martin]

when is the next WB chat, i know that they have been very good to do two a year on for the film, and the second one for TV and animation. this has be come a complete abomination on MGM animation with the issues with Droopy, the problems with all the T&J sets, i just want to scream. hopefully tis can be resolved. i cant wait for the next chat, and no i do not mean the TV and Animation one. I hope that someone has the good since to bring this problem up, i know that WB does indeed read the topic and body of this forum. as stated so many times. why dear lord then has then been such a fiasco to get the MGM toons treated with the same respect as Looney Tunes or Popeye, the statement that the material is too offensive, give me a break, it clearly states for the adult collector, on the outside packaging. put a big liable on the cellophane if you have to so that Mom walmat doesnt make the mistake and get it for her kids. but to tell adults that they cant see it's beyond belief, have we all turned into sheeple, just stay with the heard or do we still have a chance to voice this opinion that this need to be done again and done correctly.
and i know that the Forum monitors will understand my grief, if WB does this correctly can we then get it moved to the theatrical section, instead of TV?

I hope that there is another announcement concerning this issue, one that corrects this oversight.

 

[Mark Anthony]

As per previous discussions on a similar vein, shouldn't this thread be in the film and documentary section?

 

[TravisR]

According to the back of T&J V3, there's a featurette called "Cat And Mouse: The Tale Of Tom And Jerry" and the synopsis of it reads "The History of One of Animation's Greatest Teams- from Early Days to Censorship Controversies* to Award-Winning Glory". I find it rather ironic that they're covering censorship while not releasing two cartoons based on their content.

Hopefully, WB will go for the hat trick and offer a replacement for the flack that they're getting for this. I can see why, say, Lucasfilm didn't offer a replacement for Star Wars since the vast majority of people buying SW had no idea that there was a problem. In this case, the majority of people buying this are collectors and I hope WB does the right thing (again). Of course, the easier way to do this would have been to just have the two cartoons on the set in the first place.

*Emphasis mine

 

[Rod J]

I bet you never see the rest of the Jolson Warner Brothers movies on DVD and they didn't clips from Wonder Bar on the Busby Berkeley Disc.

 

[PatH]

We shouldn't be surprised at anything like this. We've allowed the studios to call the tune on these sorts of things (edited content, music substitutions, etc.) from the getgo and there's probably little we can do. Oh sure, we can fulminate here and elsewhere, but the sad fact is the only thing the studios or any business today for that matter understands is the bottom line. In the case of T&J, somebody made a decision that sales would be affected by the inclusion of these shorts so they were omitted. And realize that, like a previous poster alluded to, this is overall bottom line throughout Warner, not just home video. If Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson threaten a boycott across Time-Warner, the feared loss of profit is immense, so better safe than sorry. Issue a high-minded statement taking the high ground and the only ones hurt are the true fans who don't really matter that much anyway.

Another poster here was perfectly correct when he said that parents use cartoons to keep their kids occupied; that's because the vast majority of parents seem to feel that anything animated is for kids. Studios are eager to pander to that to up their profits.

Now, I know that some will read this and jump to the defense of the fine work done by Feltenstein with the Looney Tunes shorts and the other classic films he's given us. I'll grant you that and I own most of them (my brother owns the rest ). But as soon as someone above him in the food chain becomes unimpressed with the profits he generates or decides that the consumer will buy whatever, that spring will dry up. As for the Looney Tunes shorts themselves, ask yourself how many black and whites have been put out. I'll grant that these may present restoration problems, but I'll also bet that somebody out there said, "Let's concentrate on color; the B&W won't sell as well!" (there's that old bottom line again, you see). As for the Censored 11, Feltenstein will ultimately be backed into that corner (Lord knows I'm sure he's discussed it a lot already) and we may not like the result.

Several people have mentioned possible boycotts or bad publicity from Al Sharpton. Well, he's not the only one who can use that tool. If we as consumers had boycotted DVDs when something was missing from a set or changed, maybe it wouldn't happen as often as it does. As it is, we now have sets coming out with deleted or altered footage, changed soundtracks
and God knows what and we have no choice but to accept the changes or not buy the product. The problem with this is that the studios then conclude, not that the product was faulty because of the changes, but that there was a smaller than anticipated market in the first place, making it therefore economically infeasible (that old bottom line) to release the product in the future. Elsewhere in this forum, WHV has said that it would like to release its '50s TV output, but was having trouble with the numbers. That problem will only increase because the people who remember this sort of show and want it are getting older, going onto fixed incomes (in which DVD purchases will probably become a smaller part of the budget), or, regrettably dying off. That market is here now, but the studios won't invest in it because they'd rather see huge upfront sales of Balls of Fury or American Pie than accept smaller but steady sales of older titles.

As to a boycott of all DVD to force the studios to pay attention, it wouldn't work and here's why: even if everyone who reads this agreed with it, it would always be on the basis of "I'll never buy another edited DVD again . . . unless they put out X (and everyone has their own X), then I've got to have it!" And I'm not above that myself. I've got more edited DVDs than I'd like to admit (one that comes to mind is the first season of Mary Tyler Moore). Most of these purchases were blind, the result of little or no research on my part. When I realized how consistent the trend toward music substitution has become, I became much more cautious. But when The Addams Family came out, I learned that it was edited, but bought it anyway. I had to have it. See what I mean? A boycott will never work; I know it and the studios know it.

As to music substitution, that problem will never be solved. There's already in place a modus vivendi that makes a solution unnecessary barring a successful negotiation for whatever show is at issue. As I understand it, music is bought for broadcast only. The viewer associates music with a particular show, but the producers have left the decision as to whether that music will be on the DVD to negotiators at later date. Then, if an agreement can't be reached, it's time for a more economically feasible (say hello to our old friend the bottom line) substitution. This will always happen and I can't see a feasible solution, economic or not.

Music should be tied to the show in which it was used, with some formula to allow for compensation to the composers and performers involved. Any TV show is a crap shoot; it may hit, it probably won't. If it flops, those that licensed their music for inclusion count themselves lucky for the bit of icing they got on their rights. If it flies, I would assume that they renegotiate periodically as part of the normal rise of production costs over time. With DVD, there's only the one bite of the apple, so music holders assume that every DVD will be a megaseller so they want a big piece up front. That's flawed reasoning because broadcast TV is free (as of now) and DVD is not.
A show might be a big hit in one medium but garner slower sales because everybody has a limit on their DVD budget (it's inconvenient I know, but one has to eat and feed one's family). But rather than accede to that reality, we have impasses in negotiation and therefore music substitution.

I realize that if you've made it this far, you may have concluded that I've gone far afield from the topic, but not really. T&J is just the latest example of what we have to put up with and it all ties together. If the moderators want to move this to its own topic, that's fine by me, but we all know that there's be another such decision by the studios tomorrow or the next day. T&J is just the one that finally made me put in my two cents, which is funny, because I've never really cared for them as much as the Looney Tunes or Donald Duck. That shouldn't detract from my comments, though. Thanks for reading!

PatH

 

[Jari K]

At least they could release some kind of "limited" or similar package for "adults only", including all the uncut-cartoons and clear statement on the cover that not all of these shorts are suitable for the kids. That at least would keep us fans happy..

These are cartoons made in 1940-1950s for crying out loud..

 

[Eric Peterson]

Well, I took 24 hours to try and cool off over this announcement, but that did little to soothe my mood. This is by the far the most enraged that I've been toward a studio since the dawn of the format. Censorship is one thing that I will not abide on any level. As much as I've supported WB over the years, this single press release has destroyed all goodwill that they have built up. The only other time that I felt this angry was when WB (ironically) decided to release "Willy Wonka" in FS only despite their earlier claims (because it too was family friendly!!) This action alone will keep me from voting for WB as studio of the year. An absolutley shameful decision on every level.

Ever since the first T&J debacle, I have always had a tinge of doubt in the back of my mind that the editing was intentional with the knowledge that only a small percentage of people would ever notice or complain. That doubt has now been erased. In my opinion, this has been their intention all along and we have let them get away with it.

In order to be more knowledgable about the potentially offensive content, I pulled out my LD sets last night and reviewed both cartoons in question. "Cassanova Cat" contains a small bit where Jerry dances in blackface similar to Al Jolson. This bit was so minor that I almost missed it. Not only that, but there have been worse instances of racial stereotyping on nearly every WB animated release. Why did they single out this cartoon? Then I watched "Mouse Cleaning". I do have to admit that the final 30 seconds of this cartoon have some pretty strong and potentially offensive material where Tom saunters off in blackface while talking in a slow southern tongue while Mammy Two-Shoes confuses him for a black man. That said, I did not find it any worse than the replacement disc from the last volume where Jerry does a similar bit where he dresses up like a black mammy. I just do not understand why they singled out these two cartoons. Has there been a management change in this division or even higher up at WB?

So what now? What are our options as consumers who are being manipulated by small-minded and gutless executives? Obviously, the first step is to not purchase this or any other T&J set that you have not already purchased. I for one will not be purchasing Volume 3, but it is too late on the other volumes which I already own. Although I realize that the Looney Tunes are controlled by another division, I have strong doubts that I will be purchasing Vol. 5 which comes out next month. I have been so soured by WB's treatment of their MGM animated catalog that I no longer want to support their other efforts either. Especially when I personally consider the MGM toons to be the cream of the crop that they own. I would put any MGM cartoon up against any WB cartoon and have a hard time finding one where the WB toon was better. Maybe, I am in a small minority, but I don't think so. Something has to be done and something has to be done now or we will never see anything else from the MGM vaults. Any chance of a complete Tex Avery set has now been erased as those cartoons contain numerous racial stereotypes, most of which are far stronger than anything T&J ever did. I also believe that the chances of seeing the censored 11 cartoons have also dried up.

I will be planning on contacting WB to voice my displeasure on this decision, and urge others to do the same. Maybe it's too late and nothing will be accomplished by this, but I was around when we did get WB to change it's course concerning the framing of Willy Wonka. It has been done and it can be done again. I will also be telling all friends and family to not purchase any of these titles.

I am also contemplating printing up some sticky notes that can be places on these titles at the store to hopefully prevent others from purchasing this garabge (...and that's what it is). These notes would not harm the product in any way, and would say something simple like "These cartoons have been censored for your viewing enjoyment, please think twice before buying"

Anyway, I guess that's enough from me. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WB!!! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Well, I already have the (corrected) first two volumes, but will be abstaining from volume three, unless a "make good" comes through...

 

[Rod J]

A little 1992 nostalgia.. see #38 and #55

 

[Joe*A]

I have never had so much friggin' trouble collecting a series before Tom and Jerry came along. First, WB releases edited toons, then realize the error of their ways and gracefully replace the old with the new unedited discs and then they go and screw up Vol. 3 for the same reasons as the first 2 volumes. Huh?!?! WTF!!!!

Will WB have a change of heart and issue out brand new discs in the near future? Will I have to call in again and give them my address so we could have this transaction completed? What a friggin' waste of my time. Come on fellas, don't make us work so friggin' hard BUYING YOUR PRODUCT....

 

[TravisR]

Unfortunately, I think the difference between the first two volumes and this one is that the edits on the first two were presumably accidental but this time, they deliberately kept two off and made an announcement about it.

I think the only hope (and it's slim at best) is that WB gets ALOT of negative feedback so that they change their minds and offer a replacement disc with the two cartoons on it. At least with the replacement disc, WB would have less to worry about because only collectors are going to get one as opposed to a parent who uses a DVD as a babysitter.

 

[dana martin]

if this is done correctly and priced right then we wont have the issue of mom or dad at walmart or where ever picking these up as a mistake. The other part of this that pisses me off to no avail is that WB along with all of the other studios have absolutely no problem in releasing an unrated dvd of any of the recent features that would have gotten a rating higher than PG-13, well that is where the money is at the theater, but to get people to buy it for home display they have to ramp it up a bit. so i can see more violence, more sex, just because it will move x number of product better, but to see actual artwork done buy true craftsman at the top of their game, even if that material is offensive is in a different category. so my question is how do they feel about Ralph Bakshi's work that they own, more current that T&J and just as offensive. DAMN!