Speaker size selection for 3802 (1 Viewer)

[Earl Simpson]

I understand there is a bass mgt problem with the Denon(Denon site). They say to set all your speakers to small except the fronts(left&right) with no sub in the system. I did this and it seems that a better quality of sound is coming out of my JBLs312 center speaker with it set to small. Am I freaking out???????
Is this input related?????
If so then I need to reset all my speakers to large for DVDs and CDS.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

For most receivers, if you have no subwoofer the LFE .1 channel will be directed to your main L/R speakers. Setting your center and surrounds to small will direct the frequencies below the receiver's crossover point towards your main speakers (since you have no subwoofer).

Whether your main speakers can handle the low frequencies is another matter. This entirely depends on your speakers, not the receiver.

 

[ChrisMM]

I understand there is a bass mgt problem with the Denon(Denon site).

Earl,
Where on the Denon site is this spoken of? Thanks!

 

[Earl Simpson]

Quote from the site! Je ne suis pas!!!
1) HOW DO I KNOW WHEN TO SELECT "LARGE OR SMALL" FOR MY MAIN SPEAKERS (LEFT, CENTER, RIGHT) WHEN I’M FIRST SETTING UP MY SURROUND SOUND SYSTEM?
If your system has a subwoofer, select Subwoofer "Yes" or "On". Then, check the main (left/right) speakers settings next. If you are using very large main speakers (some models even include powered "subwoofer" sections), you can select Large. Deep bass present in the program's left and right front channels will only be routed to the left and right speakers. For most systems, even if you are using larger left and right speakers, if you have a sub, choose Small for the left/right and any deep bass present in the program material will be routed to the subwoofer. This usually produces better sound, as the subwoofer is generally going to a better job of providing clean, deep and louder bass than can be obtained from conventional full range speakers.
Always choose Small for center channel (we know of no dedicated center channel speakers that are flat to 20 Hz). Choosing Large setting for the center channel will always result in reduced bass, as well as substantially degraded dialog quality.
Always choose Small for the surround channels as well. The bass management within the surround decoder will then route any deep bass information present to the subwoofer.
If your system has no subwoofer, then choose Large for the left and right speakers, keeping the center and surrounds set to Small. Any deep bass present in any channel of the program material will be routed to the left and right speakers - this would include any deep bass sounds encoded in the ".1" or LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel.
Some have advocated a dedicated subwoofer for the LFE channel, while using very large and bass-capable main left and right speakers (set to Large). This arrangement is usually less satisfactory, as most soundtracks actually contain little or no information in the LFE channel. Often, after a prolonged period of no LFE activity, the subwoofer goes into "standby" mode, and when a burst of LFE deep bass comes along, the subwoofer has to "wake up", causing some of the material simply not to be reproduced.
We recommend that the subwoofer be used for deep bass reproduction of all bass within the soundtrack, not just for whatever might be in the LFE channel (assuming there is any information in the LFE channel for a particular program). Choose subwoofer Yes and Main/Center/Surround to Small for the best overall results.

So my question is"I have 7 full range speakers, 5 of which are huge hogs/like big man/heavy/chest thumping pushers" do I get better bass doing what Denon says for AV only. Just did a check of the CD and the speakers need to be reset for stereo material to large.

 

[Steve Wilcox]

Earl,

Just to clarify: There's no bass management problem with the 3802. That's a persistent rumor that won't go away.

The consistent advice I've seen on HT settings -- even given big main speakers -- is to set all speakers to small and use the sub. Some LFE tracks (like U-571) actually go lower than 20Hz. Let the sub do what it does best, and your big manly-man speakers can expend their energy on the upper bass to highs. Use the 80Hz crossover in the 3802, and you'll probably get great results.

Music, that's different. If your main speakers can handle all the bass you need for music, forget the sub.

Steve

 

[Earl Simpson]

Steve/ Its me too! I really don't know either! I read those posts also that you mentioned, but Denon seems to want you to select small for everything except the front left and right. Will I get worse bass if I select large for my hogs on the center and surrounds????? Denon seems to think no one could own a decent center channel speaker. I do=JBLs312.

""""Always choose Small for center channel (we know of no dedicated center channel speakers that are flat to 20 Hz). Choosing Large setting for the center channel will always result in reduced bass, as well as substantially degraded dialog quality. """"""

Is the center channel some how limited in its ability to put out low frequencies?

Also does this mean the surrounds and back channels don't reproduce the bass in AV mode as well as the fronts???

""""If your system has no subwoofer, then choose Large for the left and right speakers, keeping the center and surrounds set to Small. Any deep bass present in any channel of the program material will be routed to the left and right speakers - this would include any deep bass sounds encoded in the ".1" or LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel"""""

 

[Earl Simpson]

Ok// I got it! Go buy a sub and crossover at 80cycles.
I just have to find a place to put it!!! My wife is killing me already with 7 speakers in our family room.

 

[Steve Wilcox]

Earl,

Denon's recommendation is because most speakers' can't reproduce bass with flat response down to the extremely low frequencies that have real impact in Home Theater applications. That's a speaker limitation, not a Denon limitation. It's more pronounced for surround and center speakers because those tend to be smaller speakers in most home set-ups.

If you're not using a sub when viewing a movie in DD or DTS, you're missing out. For music, you may be fine with your mains set to Large.

 

[Earl Simpson]

I have done a check in 7 channel stereo for cd a tv and it is better with all set to large. AV modes is another story.

 

[Luke_Y]

Earl, There is no problem with the Denon bass Mgt. I'm not sure where you are geting that out of what you read at the Dennon site.

Denon seems to think no one could own a decent center channel speaker. I do=JBLs312.

While that is a quality speaker Denon is correct when they say it is not flat down to 20Hz (prob more like 40)

Denon is talking about the limitation of most speakers to produce bass in the truly low range NOT a limitation of the receiver. They are giving good advice on how to manage the bass in HT. Now, if your ears like it another way, or you want to run the L/R large-no sub for 2 chan stereo you won't be alone. Nor will you be ""wrong" many prefer it that way.

If I had your speakers I would use a sub for HT and run them all "small". If I did not have a sub I would set them all "large" (at least the 5 s312) as there is no point in removing the bass from thre center and sending it to identical L/R speakers. So if you don't have a sub but do use s312's for the 5 main chan. I don't think their advice would be for you. They are assuming that most peoples center and surrounds are smaller than their mains.

 

[Earl Simpson]

Luke, nice reply. Thanks!!!!

I actually have two Cerwin Vega 715's for the mains. = bass out the wazoo all the way down. And just picked up one JBL s312 for a center channel. My surrounds are Large Sansui's, which I wish I could buy more in the states. And my rears are JBL 28's.

The 28's are the only ones that do not have deep good bass.

I'm running all at large for 7 channel stereo, and will reset every time I go to AV mode for a DVD for now. But this is not going to work in the long run. I will probably get a Sub woofer (if I can find a place to put it) so I can leave the rears,surrounds, and center to small all the time. The CV 715's really sound go in AV mode and do the 80 cycle crossover with my mains on large.

 

[Earl Simpson]

Hey guys/ Does this beast have any equalizer stuff? Can you adjust each channel individually?

 

[Earl Simpson]

Question??? I was thinking again! Pretty dangerous eh! Could you hook up a 70 volt pa amp and run off a RCA output from the back of the 3802 to run a background music in the rest of the house. And can you do this while watching 7 channel movies?