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Speaker advice (1 Viewer)

Bob_A

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
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876
Steve, is it possible that a powered tower + external sub could outperform a nonpowered tower + external sub? Absolutely IMHO. So why should someone instantly rule out a powered tower? If there is even a remote chance that it will lead to a more satisfying setup in the long run, then I say why not? Value is a relative thing. I feel that my bp2000TL's are a bargain. The least one can do is to try them out IMHO.
 

Jack Gilvey

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
4,948
Try and listen to as much as possible to see what's out there. I would recommend you listen to the Vandersteens last, and that you bring your checkbook (your initial instinct is very good, they're in another league).
 

Steve Zimmerman

Second Unit
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Messages
347
You're absolutely right, Bob. It's possible that one might prefer the sound of a powered tower so trying as many different speakers as you can is a great idea. My recommendations are as follows:

(1) See if the dealer will let you borrow the speakers to test in your own room with your own equipment. There is a dealer in my area that lets you "check out" demo speakers on weekends. It's a great idea because it removes the variables (different receiver, CD player, room ambience, cables, etc) that might cause you to mistakenly perceive one speaker as better than another. If a "check out" isn't allowed, bring your own CD and try to minimize the variables.

(2) Do not mistake louder for better. When doing an A-B comparison of speakers, make sure that they are all playing at the same volume level. Just setting the receiver to the same volume isn't sufficient due to efficiency differences from speaker to speaker.

(3) Don't be afraid to bring a sound level meter and a test tone CD. For example, I was comparing several sets of speakers side by side at an AV store recently and the salesperson was commenting about how great the bass sounded on a particular set of powered towers. It did sound good, but a bit of testing revealed that the bass on the powered towers was set about 10 dB hot. After correcting the calibration, I personally found several other less expensive speakers to provide equally sharp bass and a better overall sound.

--Steve
 

Bob_A

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Messages
876
It did sound good, but a bit of testing revealed that the bass on the powered towers was set about 10 dB hot.
This is one of the nice things about powered towers...each speaker has a volume knob for bass...so you can easily adjust their output with different program material.
 

James Bergeron

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 9, 2001
Messages
831
Oh god! Don't me started on DT power monitor line and sales ppl. I went to listen to them and they wouldn't let me adjust the volume (it's setup!). Oh my god, it was just boom boom boom that's all I could hear, I couldn't hear any mids any highs, the sales ppl put in some heavy bass songs pop/rock stuff and that's all they will allow!

I'm sure this works for your average joe, most definetly for the young teen or something, it rocks listen to the bass but it SUCKED!

I'm sure they sound great when adjusted properly but I listened to the whole line at this store and they were all the same, I bet the volume was at full tilt!
 

Bob_A

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Messages
876
Oh god! Don't me started on DT power monitor line and sales ppl. I went to listen to them and they wouldn't let me adjust the volume (it's setup!). Oh my god, it was just boom boom boom that's all I could hear, I couldn't hear any mids any highs, the sales ppl put in some heavy bass songs pop/rock stuff and that's all they will allow!
You are correct...most stores don't have a clue on how to set up powered towers. But trust me...if you give these speakers some space to breathe on the sides and if you carefully adjust the volume knobs on the back of each speaker, then you will get nice deep, tuneful bass.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Messages
28
Hello again,
Wanted to get back in on the powered tower
aspect of discussion. You would want to condider that two towers run full range or two powered towers run with a sub could sound worse because of room effects and interaction of the lower range. You could end up with additive boomy bass, or large suck outs due to cancellation. In some rooms your best balance will be from stand mounted two ways and a sub or two. If you are stuck on the large main speaker idea do an in home trial before you buy. The opinion is based on my experience at home running speakers with a 60 or 80 hz processor crossover set up with smaller speakers(not minis) vs
running the mains full range with sub just filling in bottom.
 

RichardH

Supporting Actor
Joined
Nov 28, 2000
Messages
742
IMO you should look into a Paradigm Reference setup or the like with an SVS. Or, if you want a traditional looking sub, the PW-2200 and Servo-15 are killer subs.

As for the whole powered towers thing, here is the issue. When you have two sources of low bass in the room (like you do with a pair of powered towers w/ subs), there's the likelihood of bass cancellation. This means that the powered woofers are working against each other. This is the reason why SVS recommends putting a pair of their subs right next to each other in a front corner rather than one in each corner.

IMO (and many others) money that would be spent paying for a larger enclosure, extra drivers, and amps in powered towers could be put to use upgrading a single separate powered sub and the results will generally be better. Don't want to start a flame war here, just giving some info.

e.g. there was a guy on this board who had a pair of the top of the line DefTech powered towers with built-in 18" subs, and he was asking the HTF's advice about adding some SVS or maybe a Velodyne because he thought he didn't have enough bass. I guarantee you that if he had non-powered towers and a pair of SVS-Ultra in one corner he would not be looking for more bass. The difference in cost would more than have paid for the SVS.

Just as an example....

Good luck with your search!! Remember to listen to as much as you can and use your ears!
 

Mark Austin

Supporting Actor
Joined
Dec 28, 1999
Messages
639
I would tend to agree with Jack. Listen to as many brands as you can, because there are a lot of quality speakers out there in that price range. Often times people like to pimp their favorite brands to others, but take it with a grain of salt. What sounds good to me, may not sound good to you, and since you're the one who has to listen to it, make sure you're happy.:)
 

Bob_A

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Messages
876
I truly feel that the built in sub gives the speakers a lift in performance, even when used with an external sub. In fact, I feel that virtually ANY loudspeaker can benefit from the addition of a quality external sub, regardless of price. But I agree that, if you go with a powered tower, you will want to give it plenty space on the outsides for the side-firing woofers to fire. The DT powered towers are awesome...don't let people talk you down on them based on theoretical arguments. Good luck!
 

Steve Zimmerman

Second Unit
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Messages
347
One of the advantages to powered towers is that you don't ever have to worry about whether or not you'll eventually bi-amp your speakers because you've already paid for it!!

--Steve
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Messages
38
Well, I have been out listening to speakers and reading forums and researching my little buns off. I have taken all the great advice I have gotten here and here is where I stand:
More confused than ever:D
Honestly though, I was able to disqualify many sets and some I could not listen to unfortunately (Paradigm, Diva).
I drove my car from place to place over the weekend, listening to the same three songs in the car and at the stereo shops (Pink Floyd-Time & One of these days, Natalie Merchant-Motherland). I want as good of sound in my house as in the car. In my car I have Focal Utopia 6.5 components front & rear, 2 Focal 10's for subs and it is all run by an Xtant amp playing through a Pioneer 930 Premier. This was tough.
Overall, I found that with the above songs, the best I heard were the M&K LCR750THX. I also heard the M&K 150's and still thought the 750's were better. This is by no means the end of testing, just an update...
Thanks for all the help so far
 

Bob_A

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Messages
876
At the least, try to make sure that you are using the same receiver (Yamaha 2200) to test these speakers...otherwise, go with what seems to work best for your sonic and aesthetic preferences...and remember that the speakers should sound even better at home! Bipolar powered towers are particularly difficult to set up properly in a store. Lots of good choices out there...trust your ears. Good luck! :)
 

joe logston

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Oct 24, 2001
Messages
130
hi mike i would go with 5 or 6 book shelf size speakers the same though, try the new polk ls-9i there just came out,give them a listen get 5 or 6 of them, and get 2 psw- 650 subs and you will have a great system for the money the yamaha receiver is made perfect for polk book shelf speakers set all to small except the rear center set large. believe me it will kick ass. thank you, joe
 

Drew Bethel

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 22, 1999
Messages
1,209
Since everyone is pimping their favourate brands I'll pimp mine. Check out the Pinnacle line of speakers at www.pinnacle-speakers.com I have the Classic Towers and couldn't be happier.
But I'd never buy powered towers to mate with a dedicated sub. Just seems like a waste of money to me.
 

Bob_A

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Messages
876
But I'd never buy powered towers to mate with a dedicated sub. Just seems like a waste of money to me.
Well then...buying ANY near full range speaker (with or without a built in sub) to be mated with an external sub should seem like a waste to you. Trust me...there ARE benefits to having a powered tower...even when using an external sub...for a music/movie setup. I already know several people who have found this to be the case.
 

Bob_A

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 30, 2000
Messages
876
Steve, an external sub is just NOT an option in my family room :) But as I have said before, I feel that virtually ANY loudspeaker can benefit from the addition of a quality external sub. Even so, these built in "stereo" subs are awesome, even without an external sub IMHO...if people have a relatively large room, and they can give the speakers some room to breathe on the sides, then I urge them to try them out.
 

Steve Zimmerman

Second Unit
Joined
Dec 6, 2001
Messages
347
Well, then, Bob it sounds like you are using powered towers for exactly the reason the manufacturer recommends purchasing them, i.e. "there's no need for the clutter of extra sub boxes or wires."

But assuming you ignored that recommendation, Bob, and bought a separate subwoofer anyway... Would you set your mains to small and let the subwoofer handle frequencies < 80 Hz? If not, what range of frequencies do you feel a separate subwoofer (a CS Ultra perhaps) would be able to produce sound more effectively than your powered towers?

Finally, your argument seems to be for full-range speakers + sub whether the speakers are powered or not, right? Why not get unpowered full-range speakers? All other things being equal, the unpowered speakers would obviously be less expensive than the powered ones due to not having to purchase the two internal amps.

--Steve
 

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