Sound Proof Delima

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Bill*R, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. Bill*R

    Bill*R Auditioning

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    Hi.

    I have been going over past threads in an attempt to answer my own questions. Unfortunatley, I have not been able to find the answers.

    1) I am aware of the different options available regarding sound proofing: Staggered studs, room within a room, loaded vinyl, RC, insulation, double drywall, etc. However, my wife is adament that I install double pocket doors to the thraeter room. My concern is that by having to install pocket doors instead of a solid, weather proofed door, will I be negating the benifits of sound proofing the walls and ceiling? All of the articles that I have read go into detail about caulking all of the seams, etc. Obviously a pocket door cannot be sealed tight. Will I just be wasting my time and money sound proofing the walls and ceiling? Will all of the sound escape thru the pocket doors?

    2) I have a HVAC supply and return trunkline within the room (Typical basement problem). Sound is notorious for traveling thru the HVAC system via the register openings. Are there any viable options for reducing the sound flow thru the HVAC system? Since the room is only 20 x 14, would an electric heater or baseboard heater suffice? If so, then I could remove the register openings within the HT.

    I deeply appreciate any light that you can shed on these two issues.

    Thank you!
     
  2. Bryce_H

    Bryce_H Stunt Coordinator

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    The pocket doors will really only be a problem for letting sound in and out of the area outside the pocket doors. Shouldn't effect the sound transmitting through the ceiling or the walls.

    Couple of options for the HVAC:
    1. When you put new runs in for the vents, install several 90 degree bends. These bends help deaden sound from the furnance.

    2. Move you cold air return to be closer to your actual furnance (I did this - mine is now integrated into the wall enclosing the mechanicals)

    3. Use insulated ducting for the vents - will help deaden sound.

    4. I would not advise removing the registers in the HT. Most codes require a certain amount of air exchange in any given room. By removing the registers, you are removing a significant source of air exchange.

    Good luck.
     
  3. SteveLeach

    SteveLeach Stunt Coordinator

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    Sound travels in a straight line, in order to change directions it needs to bounce off of something. The metal ducting provides a great reflective surface for just this purpose.
    Using the insulated flexible ducting as mentioned above, with 2 90 degree bends will eliminate most if not all of the furnace blower noise. To reduce the sound of air moving, you can oversize the ducting. Say the existing duct is 6 inches, use an 8 inch duct as a replacement.
    As for the pocket doors, not only will they bleed sound out into what ever room they open into, but they will also rattle. Which will be heard both in the HT as well as in the adjoining room. You can try to reduce the sound in the adjoining room by applying sound damping materials directly opposite the doors.
     
  4. Bill*R

    Bill*R Auditioning

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    Thanks for the info Bryce and Steve. My only question is, if the pocket doors are letting sound out of the area, won't the sound transmit through the ceiling outside of the theater? Also, if the sound is escaping through the pocket doors, am I wasting my time sound proofing the walls of the theater? Will the sound that was stopped at the walls just go out through the pocket doors? It sounds as if I might be better off sound proofing the entire basement ceiling, inside of the theater and outside of the theater. My only hesitation is that I have a lot of soffits and recessed tray ceilings to contend with in the other rooms. They will be a real pain to sound proof.

    Thanks again!
     
  5. Bryce_H

    Bryce_H Stunt Coordinator

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    You may get some leakage through the ceiling outside the theater, but it shouldn't be too bad. Remember it has already been deadened in the room and through the pocket doors. An easy solution would be to install insulation in the ceiling through most of the basement (resonable effort, not necessarily every nook and cranny). Also, you may be able to replace the standard pocket doors (typically hollow core) with a foam core (or even better solid core - but then they will be too heavy for the tracks).

    The point of any soundproofing is put in the effort to get the results you want. For some people it is more important, others not so much. The sound proofing measures I am taking are:

    - Insulating all walls and ceiling - double layer on the ceiling and back wall (adjacent to the wetbar and rec area)

    - Back wall is a staggered stud wall (adjacent to teh wetbar and rec area)

    - Resilant Sound Isolation Clips from Pac-Int (link) on the walls and back half of the ceiling

    - Suspended ceiling using RSIC-DC04X2 on the front half of the ceiling (link)

    Good luck and let us know if you have any more questions.
     
  6. Bill*R

    Bill*R Auditioning

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    Thanks again Bryce.

    Are you saying that when the sound waves hit the sound proofed walls, the energy of the sound waves are absorbed into the material and dissipate? They do not bounce off with the intent of finding another way out of the room? If that is the case, then it stands to reason that even though some sound will escape through the pocket doors, a lot of the sound will not. Then it will be worth the time and effort to sound proof the walls. I have already insulated the ceiling in the other rooms of the basement. If I use 2 layers of 5/8 drywall, without RC, I should be OK. I am going to use RC in the theater room. In regards to the Resilient Sound Clips that you reference, you believe that they are better to use than RC? They appear to be isolated more than regular RC.

    Once again, thank you for your help!
     
  7. Bryce_H

    Bryce_H Stunt Coordinator

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    Bill,
    In terms of sound being absorbed while in the room it depends on severasl factors. First being the acoustical make-up of the room. Generally in the front 1/2 of the room you want absorbative material (curtains, foam panals, etc.) and in the back half you want reflective (flat walls, pictures, etc.) If this is the case then some of your sound will be absorbed in the front half and diminish by the time it actually gets out of the theater. That is not to say that some sound will not reflect and get out. Other factors will be how load you listen to movies, how boomy your bass is, what absorbative materials are in the other room, location of your pocket doors (back or side wall), etc..

    In terms of the RC: I did a fair amount of research (and cruising of forums[​IMG] ) and felt the clips I mentioned were a better option in terms of sound damping than just straight RC. As a word of note - I had some problems with the main distributors (Professional Acoustics) of Pac-Int products. Most of the other distributors listed are willing to ship.

    I should be getting some pictures up soon.
     
  8. Bill*R

    Bill*R Auditioning

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    Excellent info Bryce. I think that I understand what's going on now.

    Good luck with your own project.I look forward to checking out the pictures.

    Thanks!
     
  9. chris_everett

    chris_everett Second Unit

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    Bill--

    How soundproof do you want your theater to be? Pocket doors are notorious for sound leakage, but there are options. The real question is what you want to accomplish. Don't feel you need to provide scientific specs here, just a general idea will do. Also, a description of the layout of your house would help.
     
  10. Bill*R

    Bill*R Auditioning

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    Chris--

    I just have a concern with sound traveling up from the basement to the rest of the house. Obviously, home theaters tend to have rather high volume levels accompanied by some pretty big bass. I don't want to have to keep the volume down to where I'm receiving a sub-par audio experience. I wouldn't go to a movie theater if it had to keep the volume down. The same applies to a home theater. Not only do you want to see the movie, you also want to feel it through it's audio. Some people say that I'm way too worried about this whole issue. The problem is that I really don't know what to expect. I don't care if some sound can be heard from the rest of the house, I just don't want it to be loud enough for someone to start stomping on the floor telling me to turn it down. I'm putting way too much time and money into it to find out later that I have a problem. I just want to make sure that I'm doing it right the first time.

    Following is a description per your request:

    The theater is in the basement at one end of the house. The room is only 14 x 20. The room above it on the first floor is a home office.

    Two rooms (15 x 21) and (16 x 18)open off of the theater. The only thing that separates these other 2 rooms from each other is an arched opening with 2 foot wing walls and decorative columns. One of the rooms (16 x 18)will contain a poker table and the other room (15 x 21) will contain a billiard table. These two rooms are basically under the middle portion of the house. The rooms above them are a 2 story great room and a 1 story dining room.

    The remaining portion of the basement, which is at the opposite end of the basement from the theater, is storage. The rooms above it are the breakfast room, kitchen and laundry room.

    The second floor consists of bedrooms.

    I'm not sure if it is the same with most houses, but the HVAC registers really carry a lot of sound from the basement to all of the other rooms in the house. I'm still uncertain just what to do with that. I might need to consider a separate furnace for the basement. I don't think that I would need to have it connected to an A/C unit. I live in Illinois and our basement never seems to get hot in the summer. Actually, it always stays pretty cool.

    Thanks for any help that you may be able to offer!
     
  11. chris_everett

    chris_everett Second Unit

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    Okay. Thanks for the info. I'm guessing you could live with some sound being transmitted to the immediatly adjacent spaces, i.e., the office, and your poker and billard rooms. I'm also guessing that your basement is totally underground, so you don't need to worry about sending a bunch of noise outside. If I were you, I would build a false ceiling for the theater that's disconnected from the main ceiling/floor, and soundproof between them as much as possible with MLV, mineral fiber insulation, etc. For the wall, I would not bother with staggered studs or RC, but I would use the green foam tape available at www.soundproofing.org, and probably MLV and double drywall as well. The real question is the door. An off the wall idea might be to custom make some sort of door that works more like a sliding-glass door that slides into an area that is accousticly still part of the theater. Just use wood instead of glass. I don't know if this would meet WAF though. Failing that, you could use some foam or rubber "gasket" type seals around a pocket door, and get the heaviest door that the rails would support. If sound that does escape through the pocket door does not have a direct path upstairs, but rather bounces around some first, it probably won't be too bad. If you go this route, I would also add some additional soundproofing around the rest of the basement, espeicially to the ceiling. You might want to do this anyway, so you can get loud in a poker game, and not bother someone upstairs. If you have a door at the bottom of your stairs, you could upgrade that as well.

    Note: The accoustic treatment in a room, i.e. Diffusion and absorbtion, don't have a signfigant direct impact on sound-proofing, and the same is true in reverse. Most home-theaters, because of their large number of speakers will benifit from more absorbtion than diffusion.
     
  12. Ken46

    Ken46 Auditioning

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    Bill,

    Don't know if you are still responding on the forum, but I was wondering how your soundproofing dilemma worked out. I am in the same situation as my wife is adamant about pocket doors. Did the sound proofing ideas suggested work out for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


    Thank you
     

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