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****Sopranos Season 5 Season Guide (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Steven Simon, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. Paul_Stachniak

    Paul_Stachniak Screenwriter

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    I completely forgot about that -- perhaps that's the biggest flaw with the show ( or me), these plot points are spaced out so far and between that conventional watching causes one to forget them.

    I've heard from many people that Season Four is much more enjoyable when viewed in the span of a week, perhaps that's because all the details are so fresh in everyone's mind. However, when viewing the show on a weekly basis, and for a person like me who tends not to take everything in the first sitting, one can forget a lot of things. Maybe if the writers would start clumping all these dreams and revelations into the the same episode it would make it much easier to follow. Perhaps I am too stupid for this show or something - I should rewatch S1 and S2 if the narratives took the same amount of pacing.
     
  2. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Director

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    I don't think it's the concentrated viewing schedule. Anyone who's in a position to make that comparison is watching season 4 for a second time. Like great fiction, The Sopranos gets richer on re-reading (or, in this case, re-viewing). I've found that to be the case with each season.

    M.
     
  3. Dave Scarpa

    Dave Scarpa Producer

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    And thats why I've always maintained that the show is a much more enjotyable viewing experience on DVD where you can burn off a disk a night
     
  4. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    My brother doesn't subscribe to HBO, he just buys the seasons when they come out.
     
  5. Quentin

    Quentin Cinematographer

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    I loved this episode, and it gets better every time I watch it (3 times so far).

    A couple things-
    Yes, when he looks for the gun behind the toilet, it is a Godfather reference. As is the line from Carmella, "I don't want him coming out of there with nothing but his dick in his hands." There are, at least, 6 Godfather references in the dream sequence.

    But, my favorite, and oddest, is the "Frankenstein" reference.

    Lastly, I don't see anyone who feels, as I do, that the dream NEVER ends. I don't think Tony EVER wakes up in this episode. It seems like he does, when he gets the phone call from the front desk...but, lots of dreams have false "endings". Why on God's green earth would Christopher drive to the city at 5 in the morning to give Tony this news. He wouldn't. He'd call. Or Silvio would call. Add this to the "T" symbolism of the Toblerone, and it's more dream logic going on.

    Then, he talks to Carm on the phone like they're in high school - would she really be that civil? And, he asks her if it is light there...what? 3 or 4 times? More dream logic.

    I don't know what Tony B. did to anyone...what I DO know is that Tony suspects he will retaliate on his own, so it is natural he would dream it. I won't be surprised if next week, we find out something different happened with the Tony B hit.
     
  6. Andrew Bunk

    Andrew Bunk Screenwriter

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    Those are some great points Quentin!
     
  7. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    Yeah, I was confused by this also. Manhattan is like 10-15 miles from Newark as the crow flies. Why the heck was Tony asking Carm if it was light out when he could just look out the window?
     
  8. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Director

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    You have to be a Manhattanite to get that. It gets light here later, and dark sooner, than in places without all the tall buildings. Also, Tony's room faced north toward Central Park. Light wouldn't be noticeable outside the window until maybe an hour after sunrise.

    M.
     
  9. Allen Hirsch

    Allen Hirsch Supporting Actor

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    Not to nitpick, but if Tony's room at the Plaza faces Central Park, it'd be facing NORTH, not south - which would mean light would show up later. (If it was south-facing, you'd see sunlight much sooner.)
     
  10. Jason_Els

    Jason_Els Screenwriter

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    I think the deal with Tony calling Carmela is that he really did wake-up and was feeling lonely. After a night of dreams like that he wanted the sun to come out and end his nightmares and someone to symbolically hold his hand. Carmela, despite everything, was his only choice.
     
  11. Matthew_S

    Matthew_S Second Unit

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    There's an amusing article over at espn.com for all those who didn't like this episode...or anything since season 3 for that matter....
     
  12. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    Clearly, that writer has NO clue as to what The Sopranos is about imo.

    That article is full of the same old lame complaints like what happened to the Russian, wanting more violence and crime and less psychological angles.

    If it isn't clear by now that The Sopranos does not subscribe to that conventional type of TV drama, then it never will be.
     
  13. Art_Courville

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    Phil killed someone dear to Tony B. Is the best revenge killing Phil, or killing someone dear to Phil? The war has already started, and killing Phil doesn't end it or make Tony B. any less of a target.
     
  14. Steve...O

    Steve...O Producer

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    Right on. Even episodes that don't quite click with me still earn my respect for being unique and stretching the boundaries of normal drama presentations.

    So many people have speculated on how the show will end. I am of the opinion that there will not be a definite ending, but it will be ambiguous and the viewer will need to interpret it however they see fit. This show is not about tying up loose ends (neither is real life), and I wouldn't expect the final episode to be any different.

    Steve
     
  15. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Director

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    Exactly, and that's the point I was trying to make (but screwed up).

    M.
     
  16. Mark Turetsky

    Mark Turetsky Supporting Actor

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    Well, anyone who's been out really late in Manhattan or very early also knows that the sun tends to rise in the "North," since the streets are skewed off from true north and south. Still, why would Tony know that?
     
  17. Paul_Stachniak

    Paul_Stachniak Screenwriter

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    A lot of you seems to be missing the symbolism of the sunrise sequence. It' quite obvious that the whole sequence was to show Carm and Tony connecting again on a personal level. The sun, as it comes into play, starts to add color and warmth to Carm's face as the episode ends - thus she's warming up to Tony.

    Further more, the whole line, "Is it bright there yet" or whatever he says refer to whether their relationship has woken up to a new day. After all the Egyptians say the Sun Rising as a new life, hence this can be seen as a brand new day for Tony and Carm.

    As for the Toblerone thing, the T is an interesting catch, but he's not dreaming anymore. Chris wanted it because he always needs something sweet to counter his need for drugs. That's why he wanted it, notice he's always drinking or eating something sugar in every sequence in the show.

    As long as I'm thinking so much, did anybody not make the connection between Pie-o-mine and Tony's lost dog which was given away to his father's mistress? Obviously Tony had an attachment to the horse because of the Ducks, but all this seems to Steam from that original Dog Tony had as a child.

    Personally I hate it when I have to read THIS much into something, call me shallow - but I need to watch some Walker Texas Ranger right now.
     
  18. Marc Fedderman

    Marc Fedderman Second Unit

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    I believe that Tony's abiding affection for animals is meant to lie in stark contrast to his general disdain for people. The scene where Tony broke down in Melfi's office after the ducks vanished was key in this regard. Ditto for the scene that Paul mentioned. The "missing" dog does seem to be the root of this phenomenon and key to understanding his psyche.

    Tony is an unapologetic and inexorable philanderer, murderer, and general scumbag who is reduced to tears by the migration of a group of ducks. This is at once absurd and poignant, conveying that he is capable of genuine love and compassion, but his job precludes his developing such feelings for people.

    As for the waking/dreaming debate: there seems to be a clear delineation between the surreal dream imagery (waking up next to a dead man, a horse in the living room, riding Artie's wife like a horse, etc.) and the prosaic nature of the phone call and visit from Chris. Driving from NJ to NY to deliver the news to Tony seems not only plausible, but necessary. Chris is trying to get back into Tony's good graces and reclaim his standing as cousin number one. Would a phone call have sufficed? Sure, but the visit may help to reestablish the frayed connection between the two. Anyone could have called, but Chris took the time to deliver the news in person.

    This is not to say that the waking scenes were not fraught with symbolic import (i.e. the Toblerone bar with the fractured T), but they seemed clearly distinct from the dreaming scenes.

    On an unrelated note, I don't think anyone mentioned the allusion to Goodfellas , namely the scene where Phil Leotardo and his henchman stuff Angelo into the trunk of the Cadillac. This time it's someone else's rotting corpse in the back of the car[​IMG] .
     
  19. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Director

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    I couldn't stop laughing when that happened, and my wife looked at me like I'd lost my mind. When I caught my breath, I just said, "Goodfellas! and waited until the episode ended to explain it to her.

    Just to make sure you know it's intentional, Phil Leotardo (Frank Vincent) doesn't actually kill Angelo until he's in the trunk, just as Billy Batts (Frank Vincent) in Goodfellas doesn't die until Tommy stabs him in the trunk.

    M.
     
  20. Jason_Els

    Jason_Els Screenwriter

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    Yet another reason Christopher would have to tell Tony face-to-face is in case Tony wants to give orders for retaliation. Couldn't do that over the phone.

    One question I have that's unresolved is how could Phil shoot Angelo like that? As a former consiglieri Angelo would have been a made guy. Killing a made guy demands retribution from Tony S. Unless he had approval from New York, Phil may have started the war without his boss's approval.
     

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