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****Sopranos Season 5 Season Guide (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)

John_VI

Second Unit
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Feb 18, 2002
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Didn't care for it on first viewing, but I have it TIVO'ed so I'll watch it again. In reading thru this thread, I realize that there was a lot to like about this ep, but I, too, thought the dream was too long.

Since we're pretty certain that one of the main characters is going to "depart" before season's end - Adriana being the most popular choice
- I wonder how they'll play that? Perhaps as part of the budding war? Here's a theory: Even though Tony S. agrees to whack Tony B., Johnny Sack is not satisfied. So to avenge Joe Peeps, Johnny Sack puts a hit on Chris....and Adriana is caught in the crossfire.
 

Scott Van Dyke

Supporting Actor
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Jan 21, 2002
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I can see there are some very strong feelings about this episode.

I've lurked long enough.

Survey says: I enjoyed the shit out of this episode. I'll rate the seasons as so:

1
5
2
4
3

The most chilling part of the episode was when Tony said "something bad is about to happen" at the table. Totally awesome stuff in the dream.

That is all.
 

Ronald Epstein

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First of all, I want to thank all of you. This
was obviously the most controversial episode of
the entire season to date. There are strongly
opposing opinions as to how good this episode was.

You have to realize an episode that takes chances
like this will not be appreciated by everyone.

Thank you for respecting each other's opinion.

Actually, I do respect the opinions of those of
you that liked this episode. I do understand the
value of the dreams Tony was having. It was a
highly creative decision to make an episode where
Tony had to face the guilts of his past.

For me, I think this statement best sums up how I feel...


Yes, absolutely. The dream sequence ran on far
too long. Had it been interrupted and even intertwined
with some reality sequences I think the episode would
have been far more effective.

I knew something was wrong and that I was in for
some interesting viewing when I turned on the
radio yesterday morning and heard the DJ exclaim,
What the hell happened on THE SOPRANOS last night?.
 

Paul_Stachniak

Screenwriter
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I agree with Ron and the others about the length. And like I said before everything seemed like filler besides the scene with the coach, which I believed has some valuable insight into the character, and was essentially all that was needed to be said.

I wonder if in the future the phrase 'jumping the shark' will be replaces with 'Putting a horse in the living room'?
 

Jason_Els

Screenwriter
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Feb 22, 2001
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Melfi...

Did anyone else notice that during the therapy sequence Gloria's voice changed to Melfi's when she exclaimed, "and then! You choked the shit out of me!", and, "That was your mother!" and Tony spits out the water. The voice then reverts to Gloria's.

That was telling. It seems Tony has a suspicion about Melfi's rape.

At the dinner table the change of people was quite deliberate. The conversation is about how Finn won't amount to much then Finn turns into AJ then back to Finn again. Tony knows AJ is a loser.

Gloria's the reporter at Phil's shooting, was she also the pepper grinder at Artie's place? I thought I recognized the cleavage.

Valentina went up in flames... like Tony's hopes for a relationship with her. I found her immolation very symbolic of what was to come in the rest of the episode.

Ron man, I can't believe you didn't like this episode! It's loaded with film references. It was wonderfully complex on so many levels. I'm on my third viewing.

And as for The Plaza..... Seeing Melfi there is a foreshadowing of the psychological Inferno that follows. Artie is Tony's Virgil. The Plaza is also a mythical place. Movies and stories of the hotel resound in film. It's not the best hotel in NYC (though it is a good hotel), but it's the hotel that most people "dream of" when they think of staying at a fancy NYC hotel.
 

LewB

Screenwriter
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I think that was Artie's wife Charmaine (sp). Didn't Tony mention that they were an item back in high school and that he thought she had a nice rack ?
 

Tom Rags

Supporting Actor
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Apr 4, 2001
Messages
577
Off-topic, Jason_Els:

You ever hit that good Italian restaurant in Warwick? Silvio's something or other? It's the supposedly haunted place that has the cat walking around the restaurant. When I'm on business in Franklin, NJ, we always cross the border to hit that place.

Talk about good pasta and cannolis!
 

Michael Reuben

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I hope not, because that was one of the best moments in the whole sequence. Carmela says, "You can't keep your horse in the living room", and it's classic dream logic. She could also be saying, "You can't keep your whores in the living room" (she always referred to Tony's mistresses as "your whores"). But as we know, Tony's deepest affections have always been for animals, especially Pie-Oh-My.

Nothing in that dream sequence was arbitrary, even though it might first appear to be. It was collage of the themes and elements that have informed the last four-plus years. I loved it.

M.
 

Mike Tripicco

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Brilliant, Michael. There has been some fantastic analysis of this episode throughout this thread.

If anyone is keeping score put me down as "loved it". This episode goes in my hall-of-fame with the most riveting single episodes of any series ever.

Has nobody noted that David Chase had a co-writing credit on this episode? As soon as I saw that I knew it was going to be a pivotal one.
 

Scott Van Dyke

Supporting Actor
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Jan 21, 2002
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Ron and I had agreed on every episode of this season until this one. I too am surprised he disliked it. I can't wait to find the time for another viewing.
 

Allen Hirsch

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Jan 29, 1999
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At first I thought "what's it all mean?" and then "man, this is going on forever".

Now I'm really looking forward to seeing it again so I can focus more on the additional clues and symbolism it provides. There are certainly premonitions for Tony, and we know he often works out his course of action and certain revelations come to him only in dreams, so this is bound to be a pivotal episode.
 

Dave Scarpa

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Ron may have felt it went on too long and while I loved the episode I can see where he's coming from
 

Wayne Bundrick

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I think it was intentional that the dream seemed to go on and on. It was a long meandering dream, not a short nightmarish moment or a singular obvious epiphany that would cause Tony to instantly awaken and sit up and understand it. There was clearly an editorial choice to stay with the dream, further emphasizing its length, and not intercede it with a scene from the real world, which would be the unseen hit on Billy and Phil Leotardo by Tony B.
 

Jeff

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
949


Well I think the length was intentional. What wasn't intentional is that it sucked.
 

Paul_Stachniak

Screenwriter
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Ha! Tell me about it. What's funny is that I had a friend over who doesn't watch the Sopranos. After watching that episode he swore he would never watch the show again based on how stupid it seemed. I tried to tell him it's not usually that bad.
 

MarkHughes

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Dec 11, 2000
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Mark Hughes
I thought it was uncomfortable to watch... to much abstract reasoning. The symbolism was deeper than it should have been for a show like the Sopranos. It is definately a multi-view episode, but even after twice, I still can't make out the message. I am sure everyopne has an opinion about what meant what, but if I had money to bet.... it will NEVER be explained. It did its job, it has us all talking.
 

Andrew Bunk

Screenwriter
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Nov 2, 2001
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Just curious-why do you think this? Not trying to pick a fight...just wondering why anyone would think this. I've always taken the Sopranos as sort of an "artsy" show, and I think that's why I wasn't put off by this episode.
 

Allen Hirsch

Supporting Actor
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Jan 29, 1999
Messages
532
Those of us who remember our dreams have probably had equally bizarre ones to what Tony had, so I don't understand the criticism that the symbolism was "too deep", or the dream "too long".

Certainly, being unprepared with the Coach were recurring dreams for Tony, as his conversation with Carmella at the end revealed (and might explain why Tony always gets so agitated whenever Junior says Tony was "never varsity material").

Some "clues" may turn out to be red herrings, but I bet much of what happens over the next several episodes as a result of Tony's actions and decisions will flow from what we saw in his dream.
 

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