Sony XBR owners, I have a question for you

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JayM, Jul 23, 2002.

  1. JayM

    JayM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey I have the 36XBR400 and when it does the 16:9 squeeze the black bars on top and bottom are huge. Like 3 inches, is this normal? Is there away to adjust it so I use more of my screen? The strange thing is this. I don't remember the bars being that big until I got my sony 9000es DVD player. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
     
  2. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    110
    I noticed the same thing with my Toshiba 36HFX71 when i use my PS2 as a dvd player, for some reason the 16x9 settign on the player wont stick so to speak, so i get the picture compressed by the 16x9 mode and then the tv compresses it further so in total the black bars on a 1:1.85 movie are the same size as a 1:2.35 move. when i changed dvd players (im not sure off hand what model it was it wasent mine, it was basically the cheapest sony model) then the squeeze worked fine

    so check to make sure your dvd player is set to 16x9 mode. also check to see if the viewable area is infact smaller when the compression is turned on. if so then check it with another dvd player.
     
  3. JayM

    JayM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok let me tell you what exactly happened. First time I noticed this problem was with Black Hawk Down. I plugged it in and had a letter box version of the movie squeezed. I.E. there were two sets of black bars. The outside ones were pure black while the inside ones were grayish black. I just figured it was the DVD until I plugged in the matrix, a movie i have had forever and watch it many times. It did the same thing. So I did some fiddling, made sure the dvd player is in 16:9/4:3 wide mode. Went back and forth from progessive to interlaced. When I was done trying to figure out what was causing the problems, the gray bars were gone, but the picture was still the same. Now there are black bars that are about 3" wide on the top and bottom, the picture looks good, but is just smaller than i remember it being when I did the squeeze before.

    Now before I had a interlaced panasonic and now i have progressive sony, the dvp9000es. A player that was supposedly made for the tv that I got. 36xbr400. I mean the picture is clear as a bell, just small.

    I hope I explained the problem well, if not, let me know and I will try again.
     
  4. Tony Meconiates

    Tony Meconiates Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think I know exactly what is going on.

    Take the TV out of 16:9 enhanced. The DVD is probably already outputting 16:9 and then by having the TV set to 16:9 enhanced it is getting squeezed twice. When you take the TV out of 16:9 it should auto recognize the 16:9 from the DVD and look normal
     
  5. JayM

    JayM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is what i thought at first, but when i take it out of 16:9 mode on the tv, every thing is stretched. Maybe this is how it is suppose to look. I will try to get a pic with a digital camera so you guys can see what i am talking about
     
  6. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Real Name:
    Jeff Lam
    There is no such thing as a dvd player that will do the squeeze (at least that I have heard of). You need to do the squeeze with the TV. Are you sure the DVD is set to 16x9 and you are using an anamorphic disc?

    Try this test:
    1. Set the player to 4x3, do not squeeze the tv. This will display the letterbox and should be the correct aspect ratio. Take some measurements.

    2. Set the player to 16x9, do the squeeze on the tv. This should be the same as the letterbox version but should have higher resolution and look better. Did it look to be the same ratio? Measure and let us know the differences.

    And make sure it's an anamorphic disc.
     
  7. Carl Gilbert

    Carl Gilbert Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2000
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Have only seen 'double letterboxing' on my 36XBR400 when the OAR DVD is greater than 16:9. In that case, you see the TV's letterboxing (black on top and bottom) plus some more letterboxing to account for a movie that has a wider aspect ration than 16:9. The fact that you are seeing them slightly gray rather than black is probably due to your bright and contrast settings. I like to tweak mine back a little so the blacks match.

    Check the DVD packaging, if it says 2.35:1 or anything greater than 1.78:1 (which is 16:9), then the extra bars are normal. Just tweak bright and contrast to make the blacks match.

    Not sure if this is your case, but it's the only thing I can think of. If you were really having a double squeeze problem, your picture would look squished.
     
  8. JayM

    JayM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You guys were right on. The reason the bars are so big is because the movies were in 2.35:1 ratio. I don't know why I never noticed it before.

    But here is a another question. I don't have a wide screen tv yet, but wouldn't 2.35:1 films have the letter box format on a 16:9 TV set?

    We just can't get away from the black bars, can we?
     
  9. ChrisMatson

    ChrisMatson Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    110
    No, and nor should we. The "bars" are the only way to preserve the original aspect ratio. When the aspect ratio of the movie is different than the ratio of the display device, the "bars" are necessary to retain the correct picture on the display.

    Think of it this way, you can't put a square peg into a round hole...
     
  10. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Real Name:
    Jeff Lam
    Movie theaters do the same thing if you notice. Except they expand from the sides, so the wider the ratio the larger the screen. This is opposite from TV's. Think of a movie screen as a display with the widest ratio possible 3:1 maybe. If they used the whole screen, there would be black bars on the sides. You just don't see them because the curtains cover them. Do you kind of understand this better now?
     
  11. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Where is this "double squeeze" misinformation coming from?
    Set the 9000ES to output at 16:9, and the XBR will automatically collapse the scanning-line raster into a 16:9 window. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Also, those "inner bars" you're noticing: Even within a 16:9 window, a film framed at a wider aspect ratio--2.35:1--will result in a sliver of a black bar within the 16:9 window. If you would adjust the white and black levels on your set appropriately, you will not see these "additional" black bars.
    Even if you were to own a native 16:9 monitor, you will see letterboxing. Imagine screening an ultra-wide film such as Ben-Hur on even a native 16:9 screen--the film is framed at something like 2.55:1.
    So, again, reduce that contrast and the so-called "brightness" control and those "inner" black bars will merge seamlessly with the black bars that frame the 16:9 window.
     
  12. Dmitry

    Dmitry Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1998
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  13. JayM

    JayM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I understand the ratio thing. I just wish there was one ratio instead of 3 or 4.
     
  14. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jay--there are even more aspect ratios than that! Life is complicated, eh? But definitely reduce those white and black levels to protect your investment, sir! [​IMG]
     
  15. JayM

    JayM Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah I did, the reason I never noticed it before is because I went through with Video Ess. and calibrated my set. Then the woman was complaining about it being to dark, so i turn the brightness up and forgot to turn it down. That is why I noticed the double bars.

    The more and more I think about, the more and more a front projection set makes sense. NO BLACK BARS (please tell me I am right!)
     
  16. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2001
    Messages:
    1,798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Real Name:
    Jeff Lam
    I agree that there should be a standard aspect ratio that everyone should follow. It would surely make things muc easier. If all movie screens were 2.35:1 and all TV's and shows were 2.35:1, we wouldn't have any complaints about "black bars" or OAR or the like.

    Too bad life isn't this simple!
     
  17. Dmitry

    Dmitry Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1998
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     

Share This Page