Sony to start using Dolby True HD on Blu-ray... (1 Viewer)

[AlexBC]

The Dialog Enhancement has been discussed to lenghts at AVS and has nothing to do with the dial norm defaut of the encoder. It actually 'degrades' the sound even further.



I'm sorry again, but do you have actual scientific data that proves the lossless codecs are really lossless? I'm not doubting them, but I also wouldn't be going out claiming with assertion that something I dont know for a fact is true. So, until that can be proved for sure with scientific data that the decoded PCM stream is identical to the input one, I also don't take their word for it.
Just because someone says so (even if its a corporate speech) doesn't guarantee it's true. How many times people and corporations have been wrong before? Or even worse, knowingly claim something un-true. I say the answer is all the time. Like the tobacco industry could fool their consumer base for such a long time on a matter involving health which is infinitely more serious, why can't software companies do the same.


Anyway it's great to see that Sony is uping their sampling rate, and pherhaps disable Dial Norm.

 

[Cees Alons]

Alex,

It is basically like a .zip file. What comes out when you unpack it, is exactly equal to what got in. You see (test/check) it every day.
Nothing scientifically difficult or sinister about it, and very familiar in the digital data domain to all of us.

You mentioned it in your first paragraph, but here it is absolutely to the point: the data before and after the digital domain zip/unzip process is equal. There's much more chance to get it damaged elsewhere in the chain.


Cees

 

[Tim Glover]

Well that's been happening ever since this format stuff took off. Alot of folks here and on avs state some rather strong opinions without seeing or hearing first hand. Something is said by "insiders" that is then spun to fact. From there it's all downhill.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Jeff and Alex are correct. DTS-HD MA is just as efficient as Dolby TrueHD when the "core" 640 DD stream is considered. Also, as they've pointed out, the 1500 kbps DTS core of the DTS-HD signal sounds better than the (very good) 640 kbps DD core of a D TrueHD signal. Those are both good reasons for DTS-HD MA as a lossless codec. Processing power is a non-issue. Either the decoder can handle it or it can't. If it can, what's the issue?



Yes, after PCM extraction, Dolby TrueHD acts as a zip file. However, after the DSP processing for dialog-normalization, which recalulates every data-point in the entire waveform, there is no longer bit-for-bit accuracy. That's exactly why we want it tured off!

 

[Dave Moritz]

Amen brother DaViD!

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Thought:

should we contact Dolby to ask that they modify the software running their encoders so that the flag is set to "off" by default for Dolby TrueHD encodes? IMO, that would solve the problem 99% of the time. We've influenced industry parties in the past so it wouldn't be the first time. Want to know why we've got lossless audio to begin with on HD media? It has to do with that petition we put together a few years back... it had an effect. Maybe we could have another one.

dave

 

[AlexBC]

Ohh.. I sure remember that one. I'm in for the next

BTW, David. Have you been checking the insider thread. I asked them about original audio in lossless fashion for catalog titles. Paidgeek seems to agree. It will be really nice to go back to mono and stereo tracks in LPCM or lossless, like those LD heydays. Let's hope they can keep it up.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I'll add my 2 cents on that there too. Agreed... LPCM 16/44.1 sounded WAAAY BEETTTER than Dolby Digital even for old mono optical soundtracks. It amazes me how people think "old stuff won't sound any better" as though the artifacts of digital psychoacoustic compression are masked by the analog artifacts of old recordings. Those of us who can compare know it's simple: everything sounds more like what it originally was with lossless... even noisy optical soundtracks!

dave

 

[Jeff Adkins]

Absolutely! This has always been a pet peeve of mine on standard DVD. Those 192 2.0 tracks are weak! As good as The Searchers looks on BD, that 192 soundtrack could have sounded much better. These days with the amount of available bandwidth/capacity there is no excuse for this. What's the point of having all this room and they give us the same audio track from the DVD? Another bad one is Superman II which contains a 384kbps DD track on both BD and HD-DVD. People can knock Sony all they want to for being "anti-consumer" but lets not forget that they were at the forefront with almost every DVD release being anamorphic. Now they're setting the bar high with lossless audio on every release. That's pretty "pro-consumer" in my book.

 

[PeterTHX]

Question to all you DTS-MA cheerleaders...

Have you actually *heard* a DTS-MA track?

I've heard several Dolby TrueHD tracks now. They've proven themselves time & again, DTS has yet to prove their lossless solution actually works as advertised.

 

[ppltd]

Peter, thank you much for the clarification.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

PeterTHX,

while I have great respect for your knowlege and contributions, please, I emplore you, let's not start pulling the "vaporware" tactic as a criticism. We all know that DTS-HD MA decoding is on its way. They were late to the party on DVD, but when they got there it was just fine. There is no indication that things will be any different with HD media.

 

[Grant H]

A fine example is the not-so-old film, The Terminator. That original mono soundtrack sounds awesome on LD, compared with its DVD counterparts, where it sounds terribly anemic.

Disappointing that the BD release didn't include the mono track in PCM, instead of just the tinkered-with 5.1 version (though the music does sound awesome on that track on the DVD version).

Something for the inevitable SE I suppose.

 

[Cees Alons]

But we're talking about TrueHD here, and about Sony to start using it.


Cees

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Well then, let's hope that Sony uses lossless even for older films with mono or stereo soundtracks!

dave

 

[Cees Alons]

I wouldn't be surprised if they started to use TrueHD for everything indeed. If they do it well, we're in for a treat, even on older films. But 20 bits is what we should ask as a minimum (and, OK, Dave, no Dial Norm ).


Cees

 

[AlexBC]

That's right Grant. Coincidence or not, I used this very example in the discussion with paidgeek. Let's until he gets back with his comments.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

As much as I applaud Sony for starting to move away from 16 bit audio, I still fail to see the logic in NOT using the 24 bit/48 kHz (at least) studio masters.

It is a pretty well known bit of information that a losslessly encoded 24 bit/48 kHz PCM track takes on average less space than an uncompressed 16 bit/48 kHz LPCM track that each and every Sony title to date has given space for.

If Fox and smaller companies can do it (R&B Films of Chronos fame used 24/96 lossless!!) then why can't everyone else?

This should be the norm on all titles, not just a few.

Dan

P.S. I do agree-- leave Dial. Norm. OFF!