Sony STD-DA4ES Question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Andrew_A_A, Jan 11, 2003.

  1. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    This quesstion is concerning the Surround Back mode. I noticed on my 4ES that there is still surround information in the back surround speakes even when SB decoding is set to "OFF". Shouldn't these speakers only engage when the Surround Back mode is "ON"? Is this a normal for the 4es or is the only way to turn them off is to go to the set-up menu and select "NO" for the surround back speaker each time I would like to listen to regular Pro-Logic or 5.1? Any help would be great! Thanks.
     
  2. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the 4es. What mode are you listening in when you here the sound being produced by the surround back? Let me know and I will try and duplicate. If turning them off doesn't work maybe try reducing the volume to an inaudible level.

    Myself, I've been trying to get my 6th and 7th speaker more involved in the action than not.
     
  3. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    Zack,

    This happens in just plain Normal Surround>ProLogic mode and 5.1 modes. It seems that the surround info sent to the back surround L/R correspond to the surround L/R with 5.1 sources, respectively. I prefer to have the Surround Back speakers completely off when I'm listening to material that is not EX encoded or plain Pro Logic. All in all this piece of machine does kicks some major A**!
    Thanks!
     
  4. JackS

    JackS Supporting Actor

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    Andrew- What you hear is by design. All DSP's on all receivers and processors are reflections of the engineers who actually wrote the peramiters of what a room large or small should sound like. Bleed to the rears are suppose to reflect the sound that would normally bounce off of the back walls of a venue. With your Sony, you may be able to customize one, two or more DSP's to reflect your own whims and save these changes to a sound bank on the receiver. Check the OM for possibilities. If not, do as suggested and dial out all volumn to the rears. My suggestions only pertain to DSP's and not pure two channel as in Analog direct.
     
  5. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    Jack,
    I get it! Thanks for the explaination!
     
  6. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

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    Andrew, no matter what DSP you are in (DTS-Neo being the exception), if you select Back to "OFF" then you should not be hearing sounds from the back speaker. The question I have is are your speakers connected properly to the right speaker terminals? Also are you sure you have not connected the back speakers to Speakers B? If evrything is OK then you may have a piece that is malfunctioning.
     
  7. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    Andrew, I agree with Nick. I checked mine out and had no problem disabling sound from the the surround back speakers.
     
  8. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    Everything is correct as far a speaker connections go. The only time the surround back is disabled is when I turn it off in the set-up menu or listen to 2ch.
     
  9. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    I did some further testing and this is what I found. I am using two speakers for the L/R Surround Back. I disconnected the the right back surround allowing only the left to act as a single center back channel. I changed the set-up for the surround back accordingly. This configuration worked fine. I was able to disengage the surround back channel when selected to "OFF" and the there was no surround leakage in Pro-Logic or 5.1. Is my unit defective? Has anyone else experienced this problem? Thanks!
     
  10. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I have mine set up with surround back yes and surround L/R Yes (or something similar). When I changed suround back from Yes to No all sound from the surround speaker went away. I checked the cable TV as a source and Toy Story 2 as a source. When set to Yes sounds came out of the back speakers and when set to No all sound stopped from the suround back speakers.

    Are you noticing more leakage from the left than the right or is the amount of leakage the same?

    You may also want to consider performing the reset function on the receiver to reset everything back to their default setting and start over. There may be something else that is tripping it up.

    One more thing, when I select surround back from Yes to No, the receiver makes a "click" sound as if something is being turned off or on. Is your receiver making a click sound?
     
  11. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    Zack,
    It does make a cliking sound when switch the L/R back surround to "YES" and "NO".
    I contacted Sony and they informed me that there should be no audio bleeding to the L/R surround back speakers when SB decoding is not engaged.
    Last night I tested Star Wars EpisodeII with no surround back encoding engaged I and turned up the level on the surround back to 4.5 and it sounded sounded like EX decoding was still going on. Annoying. I listened to a CD, ProLogic II Music on, no surround back decoding: still sound coming from the surround back speakers. When I changed the set-up the menu for use with only one surround back speaker there was no bleeding. Some circuit is not switching off the surround back speakers when using all 7 channels.
    So the I am left with taking it to the local service center or dealing with a shipping cost nightmare with the online vendor I purchased it from. Great....
     
  12. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry to hear that. These new HT receivers have so many features its hard to run them through the gambit to see if everything is working. I haven't experienced any problems with mine but then again I haven't tried everything either. Hopefully if I ever need to use the other features (like 2nd room audio) they will work.

    If you haven't done so already, before shipping it off or taking it in for service, I would reset all functions to default and unplug the unit and plug it back in. Who, knows you might luck up and get something to activate that wasn't working before. We had a microwave that mysteriously quit micro-waving. It looked and sounded like it was working but nothing was getting hot. The fix..unplug it and then plug it back in. Had no problems out of it since.

    Good Luck.
     
  13. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    *Hold the phones* Or should I say the re-pack carton[​IMG]
    I think you mentioned this but to be sure...
    I think *maybe* matrix on / off has more to do with whether the receiver tries to decode a 6 or 7 channel "effect". When this mode is off *but* if you have surround back sp set to "yes" you will get the same info in the back as you do the sides.
    If you answer surround back L / R = No but still have surround back sp = small you will still send sound to the back speakers. I just went through Avia and the only way to get those back speakers from playing test tones was to set surround back sp = no. In other words to defeat the back surrounds you must say no to surround back sp. Which would indicate that Matrix is more like a soundfield and not a disabling function.
    Now I think your receiver is working properly, either that or yours and mine hgave the same flaw[​IMG]
    Connect you back speakers set surround sp = no and then play your material. I think you will get the results you want.
    The reason its working for you now the way you have disconnected you back speaker (I'm guessing) is that you coincidentally disconnecting the channel that carries the single matrix single if you only have one rear back speaker.
     
  14. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    Zack,
    I just packed it... It sounds like your's does the same thing.
    Alright. Do this test for me (if you don't mind):

    TEST 1

    1. Set up your speakers for Surround Back L/R "Yes" which will enable the use of both back surround speakers.
    2. Set the SB Decoding to "OFF"
    3. Check the Indicator Display on the receiver, are the surround back L/R indicators lit up?
    4. In Auto Format Decode, listen to some test material in both 5.1 and Pro-Logic.
    5. Listen for active sound coming from the L/R back surround speakers. Do you hear anything?


    Test 2

    1. Set your speakers for Surround Back "NO" which will enable only one back surround speaker.
    2. Set the SB Decoding to "OFF"
    3. Listen to some test material in both 5.1 and Pro-Logic
    4. Listen for sound coming from the single back surround speaker. Anything?


    I did these tests last night. TEST 1 produced active sounds in the L/R surround back speakers even with the SB decoding set to off. In TEST 2 there were no active sounds to the single speaker when SB decoding is off.



    If you get these same results then I am assuming the my receiver is fine and I can save myself the drama of warranty work or shipping it back.

    Let me know what you come up with! Thanks!!!

    Any other 4ES out there that experience the same?
     
  15. Zack_R

    Zack_R Stunt Coordinator

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    1. Set up your speakers for Surround Back L/R "Yes" which will enable the use of both back surround speakers.
    This only enables the surround back L/R if you have answered "yes" to surround back sp first. But yes I Have Suround Back L/R "Yes" (BTW, this is how I always keep it)
    2. Set the SB Decoding to "OFF"
    Did that. (I usually keep it on Auto)
    3. Check the Indicator Display on the receiver, are the surround back L/R indicators lit up?
    They sure are.
    4. In Auto Format Decode, listen to some test material in both 5.1 and Pro-Logic.
    I'll try a movie tommorrow as its too late now but I did listen to cable TV.
    5. Listen for active sound coming from the L/R back surround speakers. Do you hear anything?
    Yes I do. And you should too because surround back decoding is just that...it activates the Sony or Dolby matrix decoder. It is not an on / off switch for your rear speakers. The on / off switch is the "Surround Back SP" option in set-up. It's right after the "Surround Sp" option.
    Test 2
    1. Set your speakers for Surround Back "NO" which will enable only one back surround speaker.
    Did this. Again in order for this to activate one surround back speaker you have to have first answer "Surround Back SP" Small / Large.
    2. Set the SB Decoding to "OFF"
    Did this.
    3. Listen to some test material in both 5.1 and Pro-Logic
    Okay
    4. Listen for sound coming from the single back surround
    speaker. Anything?
    No. The only explanation I have as to why we get no sound in this mode may be that it only sends a signal that the processor receives first as being in Matrix then decodes it to the proper channel (as stated on page 39 & 40). The receiver may not be set-up to take the left and right normal surround sounds and combine them into one speaker unless it's an actual matrix signal. If it did it would ruin the effect of surround sound because you'd have the center speaker playing the same as the left and right rear speakers which would mess up the seperation and stereo effect.
    In Test One the matrix decoder on / off /auto may not be do anything at all. It's just that the 4ES canplays the same sound that is in the left rear and left surround back and right surround and right surround back.
    Remember there are three different things going on here.
    1) Suround Back SP --> answering large / small / off. When set to off #2 below becomes irrelevant. When set to small or large the receiver at this point doesn't know if you have one or two surround back speakers.
    2) Surround back L /R ---> answering No / Small / Large. If you answer no you are telling the receiver you only have one surround back. When you answer large or small you are telling the receiver you have two speakers.
    3) Surround Back Decoding --->On page 39 it talks about SB decoding as being for software DVDs. This makes me think this mode is only useful for a DVD title. Primarily when a Dolby EX flag is not picked up by the 4ES in auto decode format but you know it should pick it up because the DVD box says the movie is in EX. This is the time for forcing matrix decoding on.
    As I understand it, Surround Back Decoding does not turn your back speakers off or on. In order to turn them "off" you need do this in the set-up menu. "Surround Back SP" = No. You'll need to do this when ever you want to listen to only the surround speakers. Like I said uptop, I'll check some movies out tommorrow but for now I don't see that you have a problem.
    Unpack it Andrew!![​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. AaronBatiuk

    AaronBatiuk Second Unit

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    Nick said:
     
  17. Andrew_A_A

    Andrew_A_A Auditioning

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    thanks guys!
     

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