Sony SCD-XA777ES at speedandsound.com (1 Viewer)

[KeithH]

Rachael,

I will echo Chip's comments. The 'C555ES is a great component at $800, and I don't think you will be disappointed with it. Sure the 'XA777ES is better, but it is also 2.5 times more expensive. If you do get the 'C555ES, I would like to hear your impressions of it.

Sorry to hear you are not pleased with the 'RP91, especially when comparing it to the JVC XV-D723GD. That surprises me. I don't have the 'RP91, but I do have the Technics DVD-A10 that preceded it. I've been very happy with the 'A10, having lived with it for a year now. It's read every disc I've thrown at it, and the performance and build quality is top-notch for the money.

Joe,

No problem. Glad to help. The center channel is vital in a multi-channel music system, just as it is for home theater, so I would not skimp on the center channel cables. Again, my comments assume a quality system that can bring out the sonic differences in cables. It would be ideal if you could go with six of the same cable for multi-channel SACD playback.

One more thing that is important. You may not know this yet, but the 'XA777ES requires you to use the stereo analog outputs for playback of stereo SACDs and CDs (unless you use the optical or coaxial digital output for CDs). Thus, you cannot play stereo SACDs and CDs via the front left and right jacks of the multi-channel outputs. This quirk is specific to the 'XA777ES. With the 'NS500V, 'NC650V, 'CE775, 'C222ES, and 'C555ES, you can use the front left and right jacks of the multi-channel outputs to play stereo sources. In any event, to play both stereo and multi-channel SACDs on the 'XA777ES, you will need to run eight cables to your pre-amp. This is part of the "Cable Hell" that one has to deal with in using the 'XA777ES.

 

[Joe Casey]

the 'XA777ES requires you to use the stereo analog outputs for playback of stereo SACDs and CDs

Keith,

Just a minor edit: If I remember correctly, you can get 2-ch only out of the m-ch L/R outs by specifying L/R + sub in the menu. The use of the exclusive stereo outs is to utilize the triple DAC configuration.

 

[KeithH]

Joe Casey, thanks for providing clarification. When the 'XA777ES first came out, I read on Audio Asylum that you had to use the stereo analog outputs for playback of stereo material and that the stereo analog outputs provide three DACs per channel. In any event, I couldn't see using the front left and right jacks on the multi-channel outputs for stereo material. The six-DAC configuration is said to be excellent for stereo playback.

 

[Joe Casey]

The six-DAC configuration is said to be excellent for stereo playback

Yes it is, although I haven't compared it to the m-ch L/R outs; 35lbs can be hefty depending on distance .

 

[Lee Scoggins]

KeithH,
Excellent point. I am going to compile some data and opinions on the Sony SCD777 and XA777 and report back after my weekend vacation. XA777 weighs much less and that bothers me a bit as an audiophile as it raises build quality/transport issues, although the great reviews seem to indicate this is not a real problem.
Maybe at some price point I break down and buy the darn thing for multi-channel and do a real test!
Joe Casey,
Thanks for the sub discussion for Maggies. I do plan to add a sub soon after I get the 3.6s. I will likely stick to tubes, because I feel they still offer the best possible midrange, but I bet the Bryston's are a great match.
Rachael,
Based on my friends reports, I think you will be very happy with the 555ES.
To all of the forum, a moment of zen...
Remember how bad those early 1980s CDs sounded (and still sound)?
Now compare with XRCD2s the best redbooks and how they sound.
Don't you think SACD will improve at least as much? (and probably more due to its higher resolution)
And this could also be similar for DVD Audio...(ouch, I had to add this to conform with DVD Audio police guidelines)

Lee

 

[KeithH]

Lee,
Sure, the '777ES weighs about 20 lbs. more than the 'XA777ES, but the 'XA777ES weighs 35 lbs., and that's quite hefty for a CD player. I wonder how the two players would compare as a transport. The '777ES has the nice chamber with the brass weight, while the 'XA777ES has a more conventional-style transport. Like you, if the 'XA777ES comes down to a more reasonable price point, I may grab one. However, I would probably look to get one from J&R, where I can return it for a full refund within 30 days after purchase if I find that it is no better than the '777ES.
As for sonic improvements with SACD (or DVD-Audio) down the road, there could be some, but I would not expect there to be as drastic an improvement as what we have seen with the CD format. Remember that the CD was the first digital consumer audio format, and one should have expected there to be bugs in authoring masters for the format. Over the years, both CD software and hardware have improved significantly. I am sure that SACD software and hardware will improve, but I expect the improvements will be less significant. Digital audio is very well understood today in comparison to 1982, so the learning curve isn't nearly as steep today. At some point, one reaches the law of diminishing returns. I think that could especially be the case with DVD-Audio, which is based on PCM like the CD.
I can't help but wonder if someone will develop a next-generation digital format that will surpass SACD. Again, I think we are reaching the law of diminishing returns, but someone probably said that in the early '80s with the CD. We'll see what the future brings.
Joe Casey said:

35lbs can be hefty depending on distance

Yeah, but how often do we get a workout in this hobby? Audiophilia, by definition, is a spectator sport.

 

[Joe Cole]

Hi folks!
I received my new XA777ES yesterday, doubled boxed and safe with no problems. It sure is a brut and quite stunning for a piece of electronic equipment.
Unfortunately I currently do not have analog pass through so I am using it only as a CD transport. My other CD player is a Parasound 2000 Ultra, which is a fine piece. But this Sony has greater detail; better highs better placement of the instruments. Why I am unsure. Could it be the better build and components?
I am anxious to get my new pre/pro with analog pass through to really test this baby. Might be a month longer. :frowning:

 

[KeithH]

Joe, glad to hear you are enjoying your new toy. Unfortunately, you cannot really experience SACD at present since your pre/pro lacks analog bypass. At least you can use it as a CD transport, a role I am sure it is quite capable in.

 

[Evan S]

Rachael, the 555 ROCKS!!! Trust me, it's a great component. No regrets here.

 

[RicP]

I received my new XA777ES yesterday,

Congratulations Joe, welcome to the club.
It is a phenomenal machine
Do me a favor and play an SACD anyway, even though you lack the analog direct input. I'll be willing to bet you that you'll hear a difference anyway.

 

[Rachael B]

Evan, my 555 got here yesterday. The adjustments for speaker levels section of the manual is vague and unsensible. There's usually a section or two this bad in a Sony manual. I have both sets of analog connections hooked up, stereo and multichannel, and I'm getting better bass in stereo, well, more bass. Tomorrow I'll try adjusting the multi-channel connction again. I haven't listened to any garden variety CD's yet. I've been preoccupied with the half dozen multi-channel SACD's I have. I want to wade through the 5.1 adjustments before I move on. I could see getting one of those Outlaw 5.1 bass management units.
The stereo sound for SACD's is really excellent. A notch above the 9000ES. Last night I was ready to call Sony and scream obscenities after struggling with the 5.1 level adjustments. When I got too fed up, I stoped and watched AI. Intresting flick... Everything but the 5.1 bass management on the 555 seems well done. Tomorrow I'll see if I can't tame that.
Oade Brothers is sure is a fast, efficent organization. What a pleasure to deal with and I like the way they double box.

 

[KeithH]

Rachael, glad to hear that you are happy with the stereo performance of the 'C555ES. I was waiting to see what you thought of the player. I am quite confident that once you are done tweaking the multi-channel settings, you will be truly thrilled with the 'C555ES. I love mine!

I don't know where your musical tastes lie, but if you are looking for two excellent multi-channel SACDs of some good soul and funk from the '70s, get The O'Jays Ship Ahoy and The Isley Brothers 3 + 3. These two discs are outstanding. The music is great, and the SACDs sound wonderful. I have these two albums on CD, and the SACDs are far better.

 

[Chip E]

Rachael,
I felt the same way about the way my order for a 555 was handled by Oade Bros.. Quick shipping, double bubble... all that.
I still only have one multichannel SACD- James Taylor-Hourglass. Listening to this SACD says it all for Super Audio for me. I gotta buy some more.. The kicker is, how good all my CD's sound on this changer...Happy listening!

 

[Rachael B]

Keith, I like the Isley Brothers far more than the O'Jay's. I have 3 + 3 on LP. My favourite listening vein would be jazz, blues, and R & B. I'll listen to any damn thing atleast once though. I might pick up the Isleys. I'm generally avoiding the Sony titles because they don't have a CD layer, which really sucks IMO! I want discs that move around if need be. Half of my collection are hybrids. I ordered some new hybrids from Acoustic Sounds that arrived this morning. I got Spyro Gyra's IN MODERN TIMES and Junior Wells' COME ON IN THIS HOUSE, which is playing at the moment.
I've got to go out soon, maybe this eve I'll tackle the multi-channel level adjustments again. I don't like the way they implemented it. It would make more sense to do it more like most head units do it, channel by channel. The writer and/or translator of that manual section should be lynched or drug behind a pickup truck!
I think SACD makes horns sound more natural than any format ever including vinnyl. I just poped over to the Spyro Gyra, wow (!), it really sounds good. Best wishes!

 

[Rachael B]

Chip, I've yet to even put a CD in mine. Well, I have but it hasn't come up yet. I got Otis Spann's GOOD MORNING MR. BLUES from Acoustic Sounds in my latest order in slt five. I'll play it proably this evening. I have that James Taylor on CD so I doubt I'll buy it.
For multi-channel try the Vivino Brother's BLUES BAND or Spyro Gyra's IN MODERN TIMES which is springing forth from my speakers at the moment, sweetly I might add.
Oade Brothers deserves a gold star! Best wishes!

 

[John Tillman]

Rachael B:

I also use the C555ES/RP-91 combination and love what they provide. Favorite Jazz SACD at the moment is Blood, Sweat & Tears. Smiling Phases has some snare drum parts that simply attack me. Don't know how else to explain it.

I lived with the 555 for a while then decided to get the Outlaw ICBM. In my case, my speaker ensemble demanded it because they don't match (although the type of cones do). The results were great, distortion was eliminated and everything is now cleaner and tighter.

I've looked for that Boz DVD-A but haven't seen it at Tower or BB... Where did you grab it and is it still available?

 

[KeithH]

Rachael, if you like 3 + 3, wait til you hear the SACD on the 'C555ES. You should definitely get it.
I understand your frustration with Sony for not producing hybrid SACDs, and I realize that you have James Taylor Hourglass on CD, but you need to hear it on SACD. I know I sound like a broken record (or maybe a working CD ), but the SACD is where it's at. It is a multi-channel SACD, and the multi-channel track is very good. The stereo track is outstanding. The CD sounds good, but you've got to hear the SACD.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Rachael,
Congrats on the 555ES! and welcome to the club!
KeithH,
I have changed my mind on the XA777ES in two key areas:
1. Jitter/Overall Transport Quality: after reading John Atkinson's review and test of the jitter results being among the lowest he has seen, it is clear that this is likely so low as to be unaudible.
2. Weight: you are right, 35 lbs. is no slouch. I have perhaps been a bit too hard, but for $2K on the SCD-777ES and $3K for the XA777, Sony had set my expectations high.
Does 2 channel sound better on either machine? Not sure, but it is probably too close to call or matter.
One very minor disagreement I may have with your post, I do think there could be major sound improvements to Super Audio in the future. Here are some possible ways:
1. Pure DSD sound chain - recordings will increasingly be utilizing the DSD pro equipment from the mic to the SACD.
2. Improvements in the DSD pro equipment. Already, Ed Meitner has made significant improvements over the early Sony equipment.
3. Recording chain improvements. SACD is so revealing it may impact the quality of microphones, mic pre-amps, etc. We saw this with redbook CD.
4. Separates for SACD, in other words two box players. By separating the reading/laser pickup of information from the DAC, sonics can improve. This was clearly the case with redbook and later fancy high end two box units. After a few years, budget audiophile firms found low-cost ways to create separate transport and DAC sources. Power supply is also a big issue with digital. Personally, I like the one box convenience and you save the neurosis from buying digital cables and it is hard to imagine great improvements over the high end Sonys.
5. Better mastering: witness XRCDs and XRCD2s, wow! they figured out how to wring all the sonics out of redbook nicely but it took at least 10 years for this.
6. Multi-channel: As good as my friends at Chesky seem to do 6 channel, they will in fact get much better over time. Also, more experimentation with internal components on each channel will improve.
We do agree strongly on one thing: this is likely to occur faster with SACD due to the learning curve from prior digital efforts like redbook.
Just my two cents worth!
Lee

 

[KeithH]

Lee said:

I have perhaps been a bit too hard, but for $2K on the SCD-777ES and $3K for the XA777, Sony had set my expectations high.

Yes, but remember that the original retail price of the '777ES was $3500. Sony dropped it to $2500 around October 2000.

As for improvements in SACD, sure if you consider pure DSD recordings, new releases could very well sound better than much of what we are used to. For now, it remains to be seen whether or not DSD recording equipment will be widely used. The equipment is expensive, and I have heard that many recording engineers are sticking with PCM as a result. That, of course, could change with time. Still, I don't know if we will see remastered SACDs of older recordings that will be significantly better than original SACDs. For example, will a remastered SACD of Carole King Tapestry released in 2007 sound significantly better than the current SACD when played on 2002 equipment? I'm not so sure it will. Now, I'm sure there will be some improvements to hardware over time. Still, I don't think we will see improvements in SACD like what we have seen with the CD. I could be wrong, however.

 

[Rachael B]

Hey guyz, I'm home and I'm listening to the 555 again. I've got Spyro Gyra tootin' again. I don't feel like attacking the 5.1 settings 2-nite so I'm moving in stereo.
John, you won't be able to play Boz if you find it. I had a thread about the RP91's incompatiability with ths disc and saw another. By my count, which maybe inaccurate, atleast four persons have stated their 91's wouldn't play it. I upgraded my 91 to version 236 and it stille won't play it. I got mine the week the CD came out. I went to the Disc Exchange, local B & M, to buy the CD. Lo and behold there sits a little book style package that sez it has the CD and DVD-A in it. It said limited edition too. It's out of print already, they weren't kidding.
Both discs cost me $21.95. The book they come in looks like a little photograph album, sort of... It's about a half inch taller and wider than a jewell box. I thought the discs would be on spindles. They're not. They're in paper sleeves on each side and it's tight and it's hard to slide them in and out without smudging the disc edges up, ugh! There's pages with lyrics and artwork in the middle. The release info is: Virgin America #7243-8-11008-0-6 .
I got DIG about 2 weeks before I got my RP91. I played the DVD-A about a half dozen times on my now departed JVC 723. It's by far my favourite DVD-A out of my meger collection of 11. It's also the last DVD-A I bought, this must of been about september..? My RP91 had the oldest software version, I forget the #, it wouldn't play Aaron Neville's DEVOUTION before the upgrade. I love the RP91 for video but as a DVD-A player I'm very skeptical! It doesn't sound any better than the JVC 723 and it's difficulty with some discs indicates really sloppy, lax design, me thinks.
My DVD-A collecting is on hold until I replace the 91. Most of the DVD-A titles are rock music that I'm lukewarm on at best anyway. There is a George Benson disc I covet though... One of these dayz I'll get another DVD-A player and maybe an Outlaw bass management box to switch with too. Te format is on hold with me for now.
I'll go by the Disc Exchange this weekend and see if they have anymore "double" DIG copies left. If they do, I'll snatch one up for you. I'd say te odds are not good at this late date though...?
Keith, the Isleys are on my shopping list. I nearly bought them at Busted Buy once upon a time a few weeks ago. James is down the priority list a ways. I'll be watching Chesky Records for his brother Livingston to get a release. Sony label releases are my lowest priority, all in all. I like the hybrids and the small label stuff doesn't stay in print as long so I seldom hesitate if I see one I want. Sony can wait and sweat at the alter and wonder if I'll show! Odds are I'll get the James Taylor eventually though. I think it's one of his better albums. There are some haunting songs on it.
Lee, I'm a two SACD player family now! My 9000ES went to my bedroom system and seems very happy there. I think it's a better interlaced player than progressive anyway, despite the flakey reviews that say it's a great progressive player. I think it's an average progressive player with great sound.
Oh, Keith, I'm thinking the discs will improve more than the players possibly...? I've heard the toploading 777 too. I was impressed with it but didn't like the speakers especially and most especially didn't like the room acoustics where I heard it. Best wishes cats!