Sony SCD-C555ES and SACD...WOW! (1 Viewer)

[Don Bingaman]

Keith,

You may be right on the Classe or Accuphase units, but I've heard the first Marantz player and this 555ES is better. What I MEANT to say was that you can't beat the current Sony DSD chipset, (unless Ed Meitner decides to get back into the consumer market ! If you are listening Ed, PLEASE !!!) I'll also bet the SCD-XA777ES is competitive with anything out there right now.

The area where the other guys may have paid more attention is the analog buffer / output stage. Sony uses IC's for this, but theoretically, a matched discrete differential FET-type stage could be an improvement, (ala Pass). Also, once the DSD processor produces a pure bitstream, it should be possible to just run it through a high pass filter to get back to analog. A very high quality low pass filter built out of discrete components may have some advantages relative to Sony's current-pulse DAC's. Reportedly a European company (Vacuum-State Logic) has developed a mod kit for Sony's first generation stereo SACD players which does just that, using a simple 3rd order Butterworth filter, (-3 db at 100Khz), and a discrete output stage. I have not heard one, but Stereophile's Peter Van Willenswaard says it which sounds better than Sony's stock players. They are supposed to be working on a similar kit for the current generation players for all you Modkateer's out there, and I may try one out, if it will fit inside the C555ES chassis ! If and when I do it, I'll report my results right here !!

 

[KeithH]

Don, thanks for the information. Yet another mod for people to consider. There a number of people out there upgrading the Sony players.

You said:

You may be right on the Classe or Accuphase units, but I've heard the first Marantz player and this 555ES is better.

Are you saying the 'C555ES beat the Marantz SA-1? If so, that is very high praise. The SA-1 was universally acclaimed as an SACD player (though CD playback ratings varied widely). For the 'C555ES to beat the SA-1, which retailed for $5000, is saying a lot. I have never done the comparison, unfortunately.

 

[Mike Broadman]

The 'C555ES offers some bass management for stereo playback, as I recall, but that would only be when you are using the 5.1-channel outputs.

Fellas, would you mind terribly double checking that? I am listening to a stereo SACD using the stereo analog outs as we speak, and the menu gives me the choice between "2 CH Direct" and "2 CH + SW." My subwoofer is outputting sound.

 

[KeithH]

Mike, interesting. I always assumed that the bass management for stereo playback only applied to 5.1-channel outputs. My 'C555ES changers are connected via the stereo analog outputs to stereo systems with no subwoofers, so I can't check the bass management feature in the ideal fashion. I suppose I could switch the players to the "2CH +SW" mode and see if bass drops out from my mains.

In any event, if you are hearing the subwoofer, then I guess we are wrong. I fully expected the stereo analog outputs to function like those of any CD player, which lacks bass management.

 

[WarrenCo]

I hooked up my new 555 and I listened to CD's and SACD's (2 channel for the moment) for 4 hours today and the best way to sum it up is to repeat the title of this thread "WOW". The sound is intoxicating.

I was about to write off SACD altogether after owning the Marantz 8300 and demoing the Pioneer Elite 47A in a store. I did not care for the sound at all. To my ears there is a very dramatic difference in the sound of these machines and the gap is even wider to me on my system. I am very glad I gave SACD another shot.

As far as Bass Management the manual seems to indicate that the you can select big or small for all your speakers (5.1)and that the player will route the bass accordingly. Is the maual not correct?

Does anyone know if there is any difference between a 555 built recently verses one built in May of 2001.

 

[KeithH]

Warren, I am not aware of any differences between "new" and "old" 'C555ES changers. In other words, there should be no differences in the key parts used.

So you found the 'C555ES to be much better than the '8300? Based on what I have read about the '47A, it would not surprise me if the 'C555ES were better. However, the '8300 is supposedly an improved version of the '47A on the audio side. I figured the '8300 would be more competitive.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Count me in as a happy owner of the C555ES/RP-91 combo! I use the P9000ES for switching between them and a Lexicon and I think its a perfect solution.

For the Bass MGMT thingy, was it already stated that 2ch BM can only be applied to stereo SACDs? I think the 2Ch + SBW setting is useless because you'll get no sub output for your redbook CDs.

 

[Doug_B]

Mike,

Fellas, would you mind terribly double checking that? I am listening to a stereo SACD using the stereo analog outs as we speak, and the menu gives me the choice between "2 CH Direct" and "2 CH + SW." My subwoofer is outputting sound.

Isn't it true that the Sony will output sound from both the stereo analog outs and the appropriate subset of 5.1 outs for a stereo SACD simultaneously? As such, the Sony doesn't "know" which outputs you're using downstream and thus will make the choices you mention available.

That explains most of the Sony end of it, I believe. As for hearing output from your subwoofer, I don't understand how this could happen from the stereo analog outputs of the Sony unless you either have Bass Mgmt downstream that's acting on the stereo signal or you've associated the sub out and the stereo analog outputs from the Sony to the same 5.1 input on your controller (which most would view as a config mistake). Alternatively, if your sub out from the Sony bypasses your controller completely (a strange configuration when mixed with HT but possible, esp with multiple subs), then the sub can get the low pass signal and the only question is if the Sony is sending a full range or only a high pass signal to the stereo analog outs.

Or, is there something I'm missing here?

Doug

 

[Dave Moritz]

Anyone know what Sony might have in the line of SACD player single drawer? I will ether get a Sony ES or Marantz SACD player. I really do not consider the 555ES to be a good option for myself. My goal is for the SACD to have a cd section better than my Denon DCD-1290 player I have now. One of the SACD decks I am looking at is the Marantz SA8260. I know that Sony has the 9000ES that is a DVD/SACD combo player. But I would like to stay away from combo players. Because all out quality is my main goal. IMHO the multi disc carosels transports are not as good as a single draw transport. This does not mean the 555ES isnt a good unit. But I am saying that I would like to get something better than the 555ES. The SACD does not really need to have 5.1 outputs on it. If it has 5.1 out, that is icing on the cake. My budget for the SACD is $1200 - $2400. My current receiver is a Yamaha RV-X995 that I will upgrade to a Pioneer 49TX, Sunfire GT3 or a Denon AVR-5803.

 

[KeithH]

Doug,
You are right. That is why I said I expected the stereo analog outputs to be handled like any CD player -- no bass management would be applied. It is true that the 'C555ES outputs sound from the stereo analog outputs and 5.1-channel outputs at the same time. However, if you have the 'C555ES set to "2CH + SW" and choose the stereo analog outputs, how could you get a signal to the subwoofer in a stereo system with no digital processing or with a digital pre-amp or receiver in analog bypass mode? What would be interesting would be to set the player to "2CH + SW" and compare the sound from the two outputs (stereo analog and 5.1-channel). There would have to be a difference, again, so long as the digital pre-amp or receiver is in analog bypass mode.
Dave,
Sony makes one single-disc non-DVD SACD player. It's the SCD-XA777ES. While it retails for $3000, authorized mail-order dealers like Oade Bros. (1-229-228-0093 or 1-229-228-4480), J&R Music World (1-800-221-8180), and OneCall (1-800-340-4770) sell it for considerably less. I know that Oade Bros. has sold it for $2000 in the past, and the other dealers will usually match Oade Bros. See www.crutchfield.com for more on the 'XA777ES. Note that Crutchfield sells it for full retail

 

[KeithH]

Sam, you are right. Bass management on the 'C555ES only applies to playback of SACDs. It does not work for CDs.

 

[WarrenCo]

Keith,

The difference between the 8300 and the 555, on my system, to my ears, is one the widest I have heard when comparing 2 different pieces of gear. (The 555 sounds great to me while I couldn't stand listening SACD on the 8300 for more than 20 minutes.)

I have found over and over that price does not neccessarilly go hand in hand in sound quality to my ears. As a side note, most of the gear I have purchased was chosen over more expenisive gear because of sound not price.

Best Wishes

Warren

 

[Mike Broadman]

What would be interesting would be to set the player to "2CH + SW" and compare the sound from the two outputs (stereo analog and 5.1-channel). There would have to be a difference, again, so long as the digital pre-amp or receiver is in analog bypass mode.

I must be missing something here.

Let's play a game: I'm going to say a bunch of stuff and you guys tell me where I'm wrong:

1. Stereo sound includes frequencies that are in the "bass" range- say, below 120 HZ.

2. A player, say the Sony 555ES, has a crossover set at 120 HZ.

3. When using analog 2 channel outs and selecting the "2 CH + SW" configuration, the player will send any sound below 120 HZ to the sub.

4. Result: sub plays bass.

No?

 

[Doug_B]

1. Stereo sound includes frequencies that are in the "bass" range- say, below 120 HZ.
2. A player, say the Sony 555ES, has a crossover set at 120 HZ.
3. When using analog 2 channel outs and selecting the "2 CH + SW" configuration, the player will send any sound below 120 HZ to the sub.
4. Result: sub plays bass.

No, not if you have the connections set up properly between the Sony and the controller and select the 2 channel source on your controller. This is because the sub out of the Sony player is associated with the 5.1 outputs, not the 2 ch audio outputs. If you've got the 2 ch audio outputs connected to a 2 ch input on the controller, how do you tell the controller to activate that two ch source and also use the sub that is associated with the 5.1 inputs to the controller. You can't, unless the interconnects from the 2 ch outputs from the Sony are erroneously going to the 5.1 inputs of the controller and you select the 5.1 source on the controller. [I would assume such an error would also mean that the mains of the 5.1 Sony outputs are going to the wrong controller inputs as well.]
Doug

 

[Rich Malloy]

Let's face it - mfg.s or either in one camp or the other - at least right now. NOBODY is going to build a better-sounding SACD player than Sony !!

I have no basis to dispute your statement, but I'm wondering if anyone's compared the Sonys to this Philips SACD-1000 model(?):
http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...ACD1000&rljs=1

 

[Joe Wong]

Hi all,

Am going to go with the Radio Shack a/v switcher method to connect both DVD-A and SACD 5.1 analog out to my Outlaw 1050 receiver.

Question: can one use a (composite) video cable as an audio interconnect without degradation of sound?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Joe Cole]

Doug,
I own the xa777-es and when I set the unit for 2 channel + sub the music will only pass through the 5.1 cables. meaning that the L/R goes through the l/r in the 5.1 cable bundle. And the below 120 hz bass goes to the .1. If I select the stereo pair nothing comes out. I have to go in and change the 777 back to 2 channel, no sub to use the separate two channel outs.
I am like Keith in that for stereo listening I use the 2 channel outs and forget about the sub.
So I have the 777ex and Denon's 1600. Can I join the club?

 

[Mike Broadman]

If you've got the 2 ch audio outputs connected to a 2 ch input on the controller, how do you tell the controller to activate that two ch source and also use the sub that is associated with the 5.1 inputs to the controller.

You don't. It's not an LFE channel or seperate bass channel that's activated. It's anything below a certain frequency, probably 120 KHZ derived from the 2 channels.

 

[Doug_B]

It's anything below a certain frequency, probably 120 KHZ derived from the 2 channels.

Yes, but you still need another channel supported by a physical interconnect out of the Sony to carry the < 120 Hz signal if the bass management operated in concert with the 2 ch audio outputs (making it a 3 ch output).

 

[CollinMorphew]

KeithH

I am using the Radio Shack switch boxes. You need two of them to switch between the two 5.1 sources, and two boxes will run you $30. For $30, I am very impressed with them. I detect no sound degradation. The part number is 15-1952 and you can get them on radioshack.com. You should also be able to get them at your local Radio Shack.

I'm trying to figure this out right now. I was trying to add everything up after a day of work (bad idea) and I was thinking you would need 3 boxes since each one has only 1 L/R out--am I doing something wrong or looking at the wrong box? A diagram might help since something is not adding up in my over taxed brain (just finished wiring up 7.1 speakers, new receiver, new SACD and DVD-A--ugh-but fun!!)