Sony/SACD take note of this: (1 Viewer)

[RichardMA]

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...snumber=498243

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I talked with some friends at Sony. They laughed, because they have had a great three weeks on people jumping on the SACD bandwagon with title announcements from The Who, CCR, The Rolling Stones, etc.

If anything, the DVDA momentum has slowed at the same time.

Let's just wait and see how they respond.

 

[KeithH]

Lee said:

I talked with some friends at Sony. They laughed, because they have had a great three weeks on people jumping on the SACD bandwagon with title announcements from The Who, CCR, The Rolling Stones, etc.

They should stop laughing. Last time I checked, Sony Music wasn't releasing SACDs of The Who, CCR, or the Stones. Instead of laughing, Sony Music should make an effort to support the format it helped to create.
Richard,
I couldn't get the link to work. :frowning:

 

[KeithH]

Lee also said:

Let's just wait and see how they respond.

I've been waiting long enough for Sony to do something big with SACD. The same, of course, is true in regard to Warner and DVD-Audio.

 

[John Kotches]

Keith,

In fairness, Sony has had a 1+ year headstart on the market.

Regards,

 

[KeithH]

John said:

In fairness, Sony has had a 1+ year headstart on the market.

This is true!

 

[JaleelK]

I think that's great news, I hope Warner will release more smooth jazz artist in 5.1. If Warner delivers and more studios join them, I think that will probably mark the end of SACD, SACD is a nice format, but its just not consumer friendly. I don't think the masses will tolerate a format war. DVD-V is firmly intrenched with the masses now and any player that can play DD, DTS, DVD-A will be all a consumer needs. Some might say that both formats can exist together like DD and DTS, but the only problem with that belief is that DD and DTS can be encoded on the same optical disc, you can do that with DVD-A and SACD, SACD has a big compatibility problem with the masses. I think when more DVD-A titles come out, DVD-A will devour the SACD format.

 

[Michael_T]

I think that will probably mark the end of SACD, SACD is a nice format, but its just not consumer friendly.

How do you figure this? I own both SACD and DVD-Audio and I would state the contrary.

With SACD you merely put the disc in the player (as you would with any CD) press play and voila - MUSIC. If you are referring to Sony and it's decision up to this point to release only non-hybrid SACD - then yes, I might agree that adoption of the SACD might be problematic for some. But as SACD discs all become hybrid - which is the current talk on the street - that should all change. Only Sony up to this point releases non-hybrid SACD's. All other companies SACDs, including the upcoming Stones SACDs on Universal, will be hybrid - which means they will play in any CD player, whether you have SACD playback ability or not. This is the same as saying a DVD-Audio disc will play in any DVD-Video player via DD or DTS. Neither DD or DTS are hi-rez formats like DVD-Audio.

On the other hand, DVD-Audio might ride the coat-tails of the very successful DVD-Video format, but it is not as user friendly. Many discs require you to utilize your TV to access certain mixes easily (even though once you figure out the right remote keystrokes you can perform this function without a TV). Many stereo mixes and surround mixes are not always at the same resolution. Some discs might present you with a 96/24 mix, 192/24 stereo mix, 48/24 mix, etc. etc. - and you wouldn't know this by the packaging at all. In addition, certain labels like Silverline don't even provide you with a dedicated stereo mix - not good for a predominantly Audio format.

Lastly, you mention that DVD-V is firmly entrenched with the masses - well so is regular redbook CD - and if all SACD discs become hybrid - there is no compatibility problem with a hybrid SACD playing on the millions upon millions of CD players. So I don't think this argument is so cut and dried as you present it.

From my side of the fence it appears as if SACD might be the clear winner.

Regardless, I like both formats and have many discs in both the DVD-A format as well as the SACD format. And I will continue to buy both as long as they are offered and there are titles that interest me.

 

[KeithH]

Michael, very well said. You saved me many keystrokes. I don't know how anyone can say that DVD-Audio is more user friendly than SACD. The lack of hybrid SACDs from Sony is a problem. I won't argue that point. However, that doesn't make DVD-Audio any easier to use.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

They should stop laughing. Last time I checked, Sony Music wasn't releasing SACDs of The Who, CCR, or the Stones. Instead of laughing, Sony Music should make an effort to support the format it helped to create.

Keith,

Of course I am talking about SACD format here - that's all Sony cares about at the end of the day because of the licensing and large fees they would reap. I really don't get the sense that anyone there is very worried about this.

The user-friendliness issue is a big one for DVDA. And title announcements from that side of the world has been very underwhelming of late...

 

[KeithH]

Lee said:

title announcements from [the DVD-Audio] side of the world has been very underwhelming of late...

Ditto for Sony and SACD. That's my point. There is a lot of excitement in the world of SACD, but none of it has anything to do with Sony Music. By the way, I have seen no talk on Audio Asylum about the "big announcement" that you said Demery was hinting about.

 

[AaronD]

I still am not convinced that any of the high res formats is going to make it 'mainstream'. One may win out over the other in the middle to high end though.
If you really think about what John Q. Public see's as a difference between SACD/DVD-A and his current CD it's not much. Most wont notice the higher quality or even like surround music. Surround music means more equipment and money. What good do these formats do when played in the kitchen as background music or something similar? Most people aren't as 'into' music as the people on this forum who support the formats. Plus don't forget that the mainstream is getting more and more used to their coveted CD-R's and MP3's, and we all know those don't mix well with SACD/DVD-A.
I'm basing this mostly on visit by friends who think that SACD is cool, but don't see the reason to get into it... They can't make CD-R's or MP3's easily and on the stuff they have there wouldn't be too much of an audible difference.
-Aaron
No mistake, I love high-rez audio...

 

[Rachael B]

Aaron, it looks like they'll "back" SACD into the marketplace with hybrids. Selling everybody new players over the next 5 to 10 years is very appealing too. SACD's excell at stereo as far as I'm concerned. I'd be into them even if all the releases were just stereo. Best wishes!

 

[Michael_T]

You saved me many keystrokes

Keith,
Just trying to help.
Actually, I need all the posts I can get to try and overtake your 7100 posts (at the time I posted this). How do you do it?

 

[KeithH]

Michael,
Very simple. I have no life! Seriously though, I am single with no kids. My girlfriend doesn't live with me, so I have plenty of time to do whatever I want. I have activities outside of the home, but I still get plenty of time to listen to tunes and peruse the HTF.
Aaron,
Remember the age-old discussion here that more and more people are going the way of lower resolution in the form of MP3s. Between CDs and MP3s, I don't see either high-resolution format going mainstream. However, I feel SACD has a greater chance.
SACD has seen a few exciting announcements in the past couple of weeks, with releases coming from the Stones, The Who, and CCR. If these hybrid discs were to replace the current CDs and be priced like CDs, that would help SACD immensely. However, the CCR discs are coming from Steve Hoffman, so they will not replace the Fantasy CDs. I am wondering how ABCKO will market the Stones SACDs. Since the CD layers will be remastered for the first time and the discs will retail for $20 each (meaning they will sell for a few bucks less in stores), these hybrids could replace the old CDs. However, I doubt it will happen. I'm just skeptical.

 

[AaronD]

Rachel:

I totally agree, and I'm sure thats the way Sony would like to get SACD mainstream...But look at them! No hybrid releases!!! I *still* don't believe they're doing that to themselves. *sigh*

Keith:

SACD is better suited in my opinion too, it's more like a regular CD and can even be one... It's the video requirement of DVD-A that is crippling it IMHO.

I'd still love to see a major label actually start replacing the CD's in their catalog w/ hybrids instead of selling both. It would only help in the long run to bring manufacturing prices down and get market penetration. But what do we know?

-Aaron

 

[KeithH]

Aaron said:

I'd still love to see a major label actually start replacing the CD's in their catalog w/ hybrids instead of selling both. It would only help in the long run to bring manufacturing prices down and get market penetration. But what do we know?

I'd like to think that as the buying public and as audio enthusiasts (or audiophiles, if you like the term), we know a lot. Unfortunately, the big wigs in the music software and hardware businesses rarely recognize us. :frowning:

 

[AaronD]

Keith,
They're too busy worrying about college students trading MP3's to deliver the product that they should. Copy Right is one thing that gets me wound up every time... They're trying to solve a social problem with legislation, and that just will not work. But back to the topic, it makes so much sense to me that I can't see how it isn't obvious to them. They *want* a more secure audio format, and they have a way to get it into homes, they just wont do it!

-Aaron

 

[JaleelK]

How do you figure this? I own both SACD and DVD-Audio and I would state the contrary.

I was speaking more on the software side. With DVD-A you don't need a DVD-A capable player to play the disc, you can play the DD 5.1 or DTS version of song that usually comes on a DVD-A disc, I know its not the 24/96 stuff but those tracks usually sound pretty, enough to get your appetite wet for more surround music. SACD requires all new hardware and those hybrid disc are all so few they barely exist. I think DVD-A piggy back on DVD-V is how it will ultimately over come SACD, SACD is quickly heading for niche status. I don't think you will ever convince the masses that they need a Super CD, not when they already have a CD and a DVD player. Also, there aren't many manufacturers that make SACD players, Sony, Pioneer, Marantz and Phillips, with the exception of Sony, most are very expensive, costing about a $1,000 and up.

 

[KeithH]

Jaleel said:

SACD is quickly heading for niche status

Not as quickly as is DVD-Audio. While I am disappointed with Sony's inactivity in the SACD arena of late, we have seen announcements of hybrid SACDs coming of The Who, the Stones, and Creedence Clearwater Revival from other labels. These SACDs from three big-time rock groups will be available in the short term. This is very big news for SACD. By contrast, Warner has dropped the ball with DVD-Audio, and no one has really picked up the slack. If Sony were to open up its vault with hybrid discs, it could put SACD over the top. Even with Sony's questionable approach to marketing SACD, SACD is definitely ahead of DVD-Audio. If SACD is heading for niche status, let DVD-Audio show it the way.
Disclaimer: I enjoy DVD-Audio. I own a player and 21 discs. However, DVD-Audio is behind SACD. Plain and simple.