Sony NetMD - First Impressions (1 Viewer)

[Michael St. Clair]

I'd like an MDS-JA333ES, but it's a pretty penny.
I can't help but lust after the MDS-JE780, with 24-bit DSP and Type-S ATRAC for improved MDLP! But no US warranty. $450 shipped from Japan!
Will there ever be a new generation of decks in the US? New portables are still arriving (just from Sony), but it looks grim to me...
If I could get a US deck with Type-S and NetMD, I'd be all over it...I still may succumb to an import...

 

[Greg Schwabacher]

Michael, I paid $620 shipped for my 'JA333ES. If you're willing to spend $450 for the 'JE780, the 'JA333ES is only a bit more!

Just curious...how much is the 'JB980 from your Japanese source? $450 seems really high for a JE-level deck.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I don't know a source for the 333ES from Japan.

$450 seems really high for a JE-level deck.

It's from a brand-new generation with newer tech than any ES deck, only about 3 months old. The 333ES has ES build quality, but the ATRAC tech is over 2 years old!

I don't know of any ES deck with the new Type-S ATRAC. I assume one is coming at least to Japan, but are any new decks coming to the States?

 

[Allan_Lim]

Isn't Type S only for LP modes though? Isn't basically Type R for the LP modes is what I understand.

I figure that in an ES deck you're looking for the best sound quality and not as worried about LP modes. So while I'd like to see it as well, I wonder if Sony will bother.

I sure hope Sony releases a new line of MD decks. I'm just getting into the format as it's finally affordable and I'd love to see it grow. For portable purposes it's by far the best format out there. I just hope more car decks become available.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

My primary use for a home deck is to record discs to listen to on my portables, and I'm very interested in Type S for that very purpose. I find LP2 pretty good for listening on the go with KSC-35 headphones, but it's not SP. Use a good pair of Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic headphones, and the difference is even more pronounced. If Type S improves LP2 notably, I want it!
We all have different needs, I suppose...right?

 

[Allan_Lim]

Michael, I actually want the same thing. I just figured I was in the minority and that Sony might not bother as they may think that part of the market is too small.
I really hope that I'm wrong.
It will be actually another week before I get my MD player and we'll see how I take to it, but from almost everyone I talk to, if you've had MD then you love the format.
I think I'll love it too and end up buying even more equipment that I don't really need, but equipment that I'll have fun with

 

[Greg Schwabacher]

I bought the 'JA333ES because I'm really not interested in the MDLP modes (until yesterday, I'd never recorded an LP MD, even though it was possible on my MZ-R900). I wanted the best possible sound quality in SP mode, and the 'JA333ES gives that. That being said, I really hope that Sony releases a new ES deck with NetMD and ATRAC Type-S, but I wouldn't bet on it (and, by buying the 'JA333ES right now, I guess I kind-of bet against it).
I figure that if I do any MDLP recording, it will be using NetMD and my portable, so Type-S on my deck wasn't important.
Funny, these MD decks, with all their "Type-R" and "Type-S" stuff, are starting to sound like Japanese sport compact cars!!

 

[Allan_Lim]

Greg, I hadn't noticed the tie in with Type R and Type S, but I think you're right there must be some kind of marketing tie in with the SCC segment.

Greg, don't you ever record a disc on your portable and want to play it on your home deck? I'm looking at a used home deck that I like, however it doesn't have MDLP and I'm thinking I'll pass. I just figure that I want to be able to take any given MD I've recorded and play it any of the MD machines I have. I'd like to know your perspective, it might make me decide to go for the non-MDLP deck.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

http://www.minidisct.com/products/sony_mdsje780.html
The 780 has NetMD even though it is a regular deck. Don't think I could run a USB connection that far.
They kept the keyboard port even though it has NetMD, good move.

 

[Greg Schwabacher]

Greg, don't you ever record a disc on your portable and want to play it on your home deck?

With my MZ-R900, which was not NetMD compatible, I had to use a Xitel Digiport to record stuff from my computer. I always recorded in SP mode because MD's are cheap and I didn't want to degrade the already marginal MP3 sound quality any further. Plus, before my 'JA333ES, only my portable supported MDLP; my 'JA20ES and 'JB920 were SP-only. However, once I receive my MZ-N1, my recording habits might change a little bit. First, it appears that the OpenMG and Simple Burner software are set up to work most efficiently with the MDLP modes, so I might start using LP2 more frequently...especially since my 'JA333ES supports those modes. However, I really want to maintain backward compatibility with all my machines, so SP will probably be my main choice.

I personally wouldn't let MDLP be a deal-breaker. There are many times when I almost purchased another 'JA20ES instead of my 'JA333ES -- for me, the presence or absence of MDLP wouldn't have made one bit of difference. I guess I might change my tune once I've had a chance to play with my MZ-N1 a little bit, but I doubt it.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

First, it appears that the OpenMG and Simple Burner software are set up to work most efficiently with the MDLP modes, so I might start using LP2 more frequently...especially since my 'JA333ES supports those modes. However, I really want to maintain backward compatibility with all my machines, so SP will probably be my main choice.

You do know that if you dump tracks using OpenMG and SB in SP mode, it's a fake SP mode with half resolution (it still takes up full SP space but with LP2 quality). This gives backwards compatibility with all players, but it's really LP2 ATRAC3 quality disguised as SP.

 

[Greg Schwabacher]

You do know that if you dump tracks using OpenMG and SB in SP mode, it's a fake SP mode with half resolution (it still takes up full SP space but with LP2 quality).

Thanks Michael...yes, I had read that somewhere. It seems pretty ridiculous for Sony to implement the NetMD protocol in that way, but I guess there was a reason for it. :frowning: What that means is that if you want "true" SP recording from your computer, you're forced to use the Digiport, which is clumsy at best. Oh well...I'll probably just go with the "fake" SP if I have to...it's really only for backwards compatibility with my old equipment anyway; LP2 would be fine for MP3 tracks for me.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Never mind what I said about Type-S. I had heard weeks ago that Type-S was 'like Type-R but for LP modes'.
Well, that's not exactly true.
Where Type-R enhances SP recording, Type-S enhances LP playback.
So, recording LP discs on a deck with Type-S does not enhance the recording, it's just a regular ATRAC3 (not to be confused with ATRAC 1 version 3.0).
All MDLP recordings are ATRAC3, period. From a digital standpoint, the only way to enhance the quality is by playing back on a player with ATRAC Type-S.
As far as the Digiport goes, I'm not enamored of it...I don't seem to get enough level no matter how I set it (maybe something to do with how my PC is set up), and the quality doesn't seem as good even from my own files...I'd almost rather burn a CD-RW (converting the MP3 to WAV on the fly) and then use a CD player to feed the MD recorder.
On a different note, I had success this weekend using my XBox to play DVD music titles with PCM audio and feed my MD recorder...titles which had not worked previously due to SCMS. The XBox doesn't pass the SCMS. If you play a disc with PCM 24/96, the XBox will output it as 16/48. But never play a CD in the XBox! The XBox will sample it to 16/48, then the MD recorder downsamples it back to 16/44.1. Better to use a CD or DVD player that leaves it at 16/44.1, why go through 2 extra sample rate conversions when you don't need to...

 

[Craig_Kg]

How would people say the various minidisc recording modes compare with a good quality tape deck? I'm happy with the sound of tapes in my car but I'm sick of them stretching and wouldn't mind random access.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

How would people say the various minidisc recording modes compare with a good quality tape deck? I'm happy with the sound of tapes in my car but I'm sick of them stretching and wouldn't mind random access.

My opinion, others will surely vary.

I'd say LP2 is about equal to an analog chrome cassette with Dolby type C NR.

I'd equate SP with an analog metal cassette with type S NR.

But for the tape to perform at this level, tracking would have to be accurately (and consistently) calibrated on both the recording and the playback decks. Which doesn't happen a lot in the regular consumer world, at least in my personal experience.

I used to make a lot of analog metal tapes for in the car and on the go. I'll take MD over cassette any day.

 

[Craig_Kg]

Now that I have a MD, I agree 100% with your evaluation, Michael. Also, I'd have a hard time with MD without the editing features available using OpenMG.

Has anyone found a use for the 105kbps bitrate? It seems to result in LP2 tracks that sound almost as bad as LP4.