Sony DA3ES or DB1070? Or????

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Lenny O, Feb 3, 2002.

  1. Lenny O

    Lenny O Auditioning

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    I am looking to buy a receiver tomorrow from Oade to replace my DE925 (it was all I could afford at the time). All of my current equipment is Sony: KP53-V75 and CDP-NC650V. Is the DA3ES worth the extra $200 over the DB1070? I am not totally locked into Sony, but would prefer to stay under $700. Let's hear your recommendations! Keep in mind, I would prefer to order from Oade, so base your opinions on what they have.:b
     
  2. Kyle_Y

    Kyle_Y Stunt Coordinator

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    I would highly recommend not going with Sony. I think you should get a Denon 2802 or if you are only looking for 5.1 then buy an Onkyo 696. Also, a Yamaha RX-V1200 is in that range, you mgiht want to consider that. The Sony 1070 is not such a great one, I would go with the 3ES over that, but the ES line has been known to shoot out abstract signals. For stereo the Onkyo wins, for features the Yamaha or Denon, for ergonomics the Onkyo, for brand loyalty I guess it would be Sony for you. I would IMO buy a 2802 though.
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Lenny,

    If you are going to go with Sony, definitely go with the 'DA3ES over the 'DB1070. Sony's DB receivers have been very good for the money, in my opinion, but the ES receivers are noticeably better. Back in September 2000, I replaced a 'DB930 with a Sony STR-V444ES, and the improvements offered by the ES unit were immediately obvious, especially with music.
     
  4. Lenny O

    Lenny O Auditioning

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    So, Keith, you would spend the extra $200 to get the DA3ES? I could afford the DA5ES, but if the wife found out I spent almost $1000 on a receiver... well... let's just say I'd walk funny and talk in a higher register for the rest of my life.
     
  5. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Lenny, by the way, welcome to the Forum! I just noticed you are new. In answer to your question, yes, I would absolutely spend $200 more to get the 'DA3ES over the 'DB1070. As for the 'DA5ES, does it really offer anything you need? I know it offers DPL-II, discrete 6.1, and a few other features, but it may be no better than the 'DA3ES soundwise. The two receivers share one owner's manual, and I saw the manual at Tweeter. The two receivers are practially indentical in terms of specs. In fact, they even weigh the same. With the 'DA5ES, you may be getting nothing more than features over the 'DA3ES. If that is the case, and the extra features are of no consequence to you, then the 'DA3ES could be a real value.
     
  6. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    Go ahead and take the hit! I did!!! Get the 5es!! $900 at Oades!!!

    I got the Denon 3802, but the 5es was on my final very/very/very short list.

    Oades for the Sony/Onkyo

    6th ave for Denon/Sony

    JR for Onkyo/Sony

    By the way, the buttons on the remote on the Denon can be programmed for any piece of equipment.

    The 5es has an excellent remote.
     
  7. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    Features
    Three 32-Bit Processors: This receiver employs three 32-bit processors, providing ultra-precise surround decoding for DTS-ES, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Surround EX and Dolby Pro Logic II, plus Sony's Virtual Matrix 6.1 and Digital Cinema Sound modes.
    6-Channel Amplifier: This receiver drives 110 full-bandwidth-rated watts x 6 channels of power.
    6.1-Channel Decoding: This unit is equipped to decode 6.1-channel signals. In addition to the standard 5.1 channels, some movies now encode a sixth channel, the surround back. The surround back channel improves the realism of sounds panned across the rear soundstage.
    Video Surround Modes:
    Normal Surround: Normal Surround includes the following modes:
    Dolby Digital
    Dolby Pro Logic II: enjoy 2-channel stereo recordings in stunning 5.1-channel surround playback. The Dolby Pro Logic II decoder reproduces dynamic 5.1-channel surround sound not only from normal 5.1-channel DVD but from 2-channel sources as well. In Dolby Pro Logic II, there is a Movie mode that creates a sound space suitable for movies, a Music mode that does the same for music, and a Pro Logic emulation feature that reproduces sound effects in the way that conventional Pro Logic does.
    DTS
    Dolby Digital Surround EX: the Surround EX System allows you to play movies that employ a matrix system to produce 6.1 channels from a 5.1-channel film soundtrack
    DTS-ES Extended Surround: DTS-ES includes the Surround Back (SB; also known as Surround Rear) channel in addition to the existing 5.1 surround channels of front left, front right, center, surround left, surround right, and LFE, enabling surround playback from a total of 6.1 channels. Due to differences in surround signal recording methods, DTS-ES offers two types of signal formats:
    DTS-ES Discrete 6.1: Discrete 6.1 utilizes the digital discrete method to record all 6.1 channels, including the newly-added surround back channel, as independent channels. Since the surround left, surround right, and surround back channels are fully independent, sound can be freely designed and sound images can move freely and rapidly amongst each other within a background sound that envelopes the room from all sides.
    DTS-ES Matrix 6.1: in the Matrix 6.1 format, the surround back channel is matrix encoded in advance to the surround left and surround right channels, and when a matrix decoder plays them back, they are decoded into separate surround left, surround right, and surround back channels.
    DTS Neo:6 Surround: featuring the newest DTS matrix processing technology, the DTS Neo:6 function provides up to 6.1-channel surround sound from conventional stereo sources, and can be used with virtually any 2-channel stereo source, analog or digital. Two modes are provided: Neo:6 Cinema is optimized for surround encoded stereo movie soundtracks, while Neo:6 Music mode is optimized for superior surround sound with stereo music sources.
    Cinema Studio Ex. A: reproduces the sound characteristics of Sony Pictures Entertainment's classic editing studio; uses the 3D sound imaging of the Virtual Multi Dimension mode to create 5 sets of virtual surround speakers from one pair of actual surround speakers
    Cinema Studio Ex. B: reproduces the sound characteristics of Sony Pictures Entertainment's mixing studio; uses the 3D sound imaging of the Virtual Multi Dimension mode to create 5 sets of virtual surround speakers from one pair of actual surround speakers
    Cinema Studio Ex. C: reproduces the sound characteristics of Sony Pictures Entertainment's BGM recording studio; uses the 3D sound imaging of the Virtual Multi Dimension mode to create 5 sets of virtual surround speakers from one pair of actual surround speakers
    Semi Cinema Studio Ex. A: reproduces the sound characteristics of Sony Pictures Entertainment's classic editing studio; uses the 3D sound imaging of the Virtual Semi Multi Dimension mode to create 5 sets of virtual surround speakers surrounding the listener using only the front left and front right speakers
    Semi Cinema Studio Ex. B: reproduces the sound characteristics of Sony Pictures Entertainment's mixing studio; uses the 3D sound imaging of the Virtual Semi Multi Dimension mode to create 5 sets of virtual surround speakers surrounding the listener using only the front left and front right speakers
    Semi Cinema Studio Ex. C: reproduces the sound characteristics of Sony Pictures Entertainment's BGM recording studio; uses the 3D sound imaging of the Virtual Semi Multi Dimension mode to create 5 sets of virtual surround speakers surrounding the listener using only the front left and front right speakers
    Night Theater: allows you to retain a theater-like environment while listening at low volume levels
    Mono Movie: creates a theater-like environment from movies with monaural soundtracks
    Stereo Movie: creates a theater-like environment from movies recorded with stereo soundtracks
    Virtual Multi Dimension: uses 3D sound imaging to create an array of virtual rear speakers positioned higher than the listener from a single pair of actual rear speakers. This mode creates 5 sets of virtual speakers surrounding you at approximately a 30-degree angle of elevation
    Virtual Multi Rear: uses 3D sound imaging to create 3 sets of virtual rear speakers from one set of actual surround speakers
    V.Semi-M. Dimension: uses 3D sound imaging to create virtual rear speakers from the sound of the front speakers without using actual rear speakers. It creates 5 sets of speakers surrounding the listener at a 30-degree angle of elevation.
    Virtual Enhanced A: uses 3D sound imaging to create 3 sets of virtual rear speakers from the sound of the front speakers
    Virtual Enhanced B: uses 3D sound imaging to create 1 set of virtual rear speakers from the sound of the front speakers
    Audio Surround Modes:
    Digital Concert Hall A: reproduces the sonic characteristics of the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, which is famous for its large sound stage due to its reflectivity
    Digital Concert Hall B: reproduces the sonic characteristics of the Musikverein in Vienna, which is famous for its hall resonance and unique reverberations
    Church: reproduces the acoustics of a stone church
    Opera House: reproduces the acoustics of an opera house
    Jazz Club: reproduces the acoustics of a jazz club
    Disco/Club: reproduces the acoustics of a dance club
    Live House: reproduces the acoustics of a 300-seat live house
    Arena: reproduces the acoustics of a 1000-seat concert hall
    Stadium: reproduces the feeling of a large open-air stadium
    Game: obtains maximum audio impact from video game software
    Headphone Audio Modes: When headphones are connected, you can select the following sound fields:
    2CH: outputs the sound in stereo. Standard 2-channel sources completely bypass the sound field processing. Multi-channel surround formats are downmixed to 2-channels.
    Direct: outputs the analog signals without digital processing
    Theater: allows you to experience a theater-like environment
    Auto Format Decoding: Automatically detects the type of audio signal being input (Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby Pro Logic, 2-channel) and performs the proper decoding without adding any effects.
    96kHz Sampling Frequency Compatibility: The coaxial and optical digital input jacks are compatible with 96kHz, 48kHz, 44.1kHz and 32kHz sampling frequencies.
    Bass Management:
    Front Speakers: you may select "LARGE" or "SMALL"
    Center Speaker: you may select "NO", "LARGE", or "SMALL". If the front speakers are set to "SMALL", the center speaker cannot be set to "LARGE".
    Surround Speakers: you may select "NO", "LARGE" or "SMALL". If the front speakers are set to "SMALL", the surround speakers cannot be set to "LARGE".
    Surround Back Speaker: you may select "NO", "LARGE", or "SMALL". If the front speakers are set to "SMALL", the surround back speaker cannot be set to "LARGE".
    Surround Back L/R: you may select "YES" or "NO". If you select "YES", you can use the center speaker as the surround back right and the surround back speaker as the surround back left. Note: The center speaker must be set to "NO".
    Subwoofer: you may select "YES" or "NO"
    Subwoofer Phase Polarity: you may select "NORMAL" or "REVERSE"
    Surround Speaker Position: when using rear speakers, this setting is used for proper operation of the sound fields that create virtual rear speakers; you may select "SIDE", "MIDDLE" or "BEHIND"
    Surround Speaker Height: you may select "LOW" or "HIGH"
    Front Speaker Crossover: when the front speakers are set to "SMALL", you can adjust the front speaker bass crossover frequency from 40Hz to 200Hz in 10Hz increments
    Center Speaker Crossover: when the center speaker is set to "SMALL", you can adjust the center speaker bass crossover frequency from 40Hz to 200Hz in 10Hz increments
    Surround Speaker Crossover: when the surround speakers are set to "SMALL", you can adjust the surround speaker bass crossover frequency from 40Hz to 200Hz in 10Hz increments
    Surround Back Speaker Crossover: when the surround back speaker is set to "SMALL", you can adjust the surround back speaker bass crossover frequency from 40Hz to 200Hz in 10Hz increments
    LFE High-Cut Filter: allows you to adjust the LFE high-cut frequency from 40Hz to 200Hz in 10Hz increments
    Test Tone: the test tone feature allows you to independently adjust the volume level of each channel
    Sound Field Customizing: Depending on the Mode selected, you can adjust the following parameters:
    Effect Level: the "presence" of the surround effect may be adjusted in 0% to 100% in 5% increments
    Wall Type (wall material simulation): 17 steps from hard to soft
    Reverberation Time: may be adjusted in 17 steps
    Front Reverberation: when using Digital Concert Hall A or B, you can select "WET" to increase front reverberations, or "DRY" to decrease front reverberations
    Screen Depth: this feature allows you to adjust the sound so it appears to be coming from inside your TV screen; you may turn this feature off, or it may be set to "MID" or "DEEP"
    Virtual Speakers: allows you to turn the virtual speakers created by "Cinema Studio EX A, B, C" and "Semi Cinema Studio EX A, B, C" off or on
    Front Balance: the balance can be adjusted +/-8 steps
    Surround Balance: the balance can be adjusted +/-8 steps
    Surround Back Balance: the balance can be adjusted +/-8 steps
    Center Level: the level may be adjusted in 1dB steps from -20dB to +10dB
    Surround Level: the level may be adjusted in 1dB steps from -20dB to +10dB
    Surround Back Level: the level may be adjusted in 1dB steps from -20dB to +10dB
    Sub Woofer Level: the level may be adjusted in 1dB steps from -20dB to +10dB
    LFE Mix: lowers the level of the LFE channel output. You may select "OFF" (mute), or the level may be set from -20 to 0dB in 1dB steps. Note that this effects only the LFE channel, not the bass sent to the sub through bass redirection circuitry.
    Dynamic Range Compressor: you may select standard compression, maximum compression or a compression level from 0.1 to 0.9, in 0.1 steps; the dynamic range compressor feature may be turned off. When active, the dynamic range compressor feature compresses the audio output so there is less variation in volume from Dolby Digital sources; this feature does not work with DTS sources
    EQ: you may select one of 23 treble frequencies (ranging from 1kHz to 10kHz), one of 37 mid frequencies (ranging from 198Hz to 10kHz), and one of 21 bass frequencies (ranging from 99Hz to 1kHz) for each channel. You can adjust the level of those frequencies +/-10dB, in 1 dB steps
    3-room/3-source Capability: This unit is equipped with stereo RCA jacks and an RCA composite video jack to send an A/V signal to a receiver or amplifier in a second room. A set of speaker outputs allows you to power stereo speakers in a third room. The same source or different sources may be played in the main room, the 2nd room, and the 3rd room.
    Multi Channel Input: Although this unit features built-in Dolby Digital and DTS processing, it also has a 5.1 multi-channel input and a 7.1 multi-channel input for use with external multi-channel decoders, including potential future units such as multi-channel SACD players and DVD Audio players.
    Station and Source Naming: Each preset station and program source may be given an index name of up to 8 characters. For example, two VCRs can be displayed as 8MM and VHS.
    Sleep Timer: The unit may be set to automatically turn off after 2 hours, 1 hour and 30 minutes, 1 hour, or 30 minutes.
    Dimmer: There are 5 levels of display brightness.
    Remote Control
    Multibrand/Learning Remote: The supplied remote is pre-coded to control Sony A/V equipment and most brands of VCRs, TVs, LD players, DVD players, Video CD players, CD players, MD recorders, tape decks, DAT decks, cable boxes, DSS receivers, and projectors. In addition, this remote can learn up to 80 infrared commands from remotes of other components.
    2-Way Communication: The remote uses 2-way communication with the receiver; this is to display information stored in the receiver on the display of the remote. This does make the unit incompatible with any type of infrared repeater circuit.
    Macro Play: Up to 2 macros, each with a maximum of 16 steps, can be stored in the remote, allowing you to perform a series of operations at the push of a button.
    2nd Room Remote: A separate remote is supplied for the second room and must be used with an optional IR repeater to control the basic functions of the receiver. Using the second remote, you can turn the receiver on or off, adjust the volume, switch sources, select a sound field, and control basic functions of the connected components.
    Inputs and Outputs
    Front Panel:
    Phones: standard gold-plated headphone jack
    Video 3 Input: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks, RCA composite video jack and S-video jack
    Rear Panel:
    Antenna Inputs: FM Coax and AM spring clip antenna inputs
    CD/SACD Optical Digital Input: Toslink optical digital input with a protective plastic cover
    MD/DAT Optical Digital Input: Toslink optical digital input with a protective plastic cover
    TV/SAT Optical Digital Input: Toslink optical digital input with a protective plastic cover
    DVD/LD Optical Digital Input: Toslink optical digital input with a protective plastic cover. Note: This is NOT AC-3 RF; if you are using a LaserDisc with AC-3 RF output, a demodulator must be purchased separately and connected between the LD player and this unit!
    MD/DAT Optical Digital Output: Toslink optical digital output with a protective plastic cover
    CD/SACD Coaxial Digital Input: gold-plated coaxial digital jack
    DVD/LD Coaxial Digital Input: gold-plated coaxial digital jack. Note: This is NOT AC-3 RF; if you are using a LaserDisc with AC-3 RF output, a demodulator must be purchased separately and connected between the LD player and this unit!
    Phono Input: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks with ground screw
    CD/SACD Input: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks
    MD/DAT Input/Output: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks
    Tape Input/Output: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks
    TV/SAT Input: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks, RCA composite video jack, S-video jack and component video jacks (3 RCA jacks labeled "Y", "PB/B-Y" and "PR/R-Y")
    DVD/LD Input: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks, RCA composite video jack, S-video jack and component video jacks (3 RCA jacks labeled "Y", "PB/B-Y" and "PR/R-Y")
    Video 2 Input/Output: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks, RCA composite video jacks and S-video jacks
    Video 1 Input/Output: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks, RCA composite video jacks and S-video jacks
    Monitor Output: gold-plated RCA composite video jack, S-video jack and component video jacks (3 RCA jacks labeled "Y", "PB/B-Y" and "PR/R-Y")
    Multi-Channel Input 1: this is a 7.1 multi-channel input consisting of gold-plated left front, right front, center, left rear, right rear, surround back, and subwoofer RCA inputs, plus an RCA jack that is not labeled, for use with external multi-channel decoders
    Multi-Channel Input 2: this is a 5.1 multi-channel input consisting of gold-plated left front, right front, center, left rear, right rear and subwoofer RCA inputs for use with external multi channel decoders
    Preamp Outputs: 9 gold-plated RCA jacks (front left, front right, center, surround left, surround right, surround back, two subwoofers, and an RCA jack that is not labeled)
    2ND Room Output: gold-plated stereo RCA jacks and RCA composite video jack for use with an optional amplifier
    RS-232C Port: this jack is intended for use in the manufacturing and servicing of this unit
    Control A1II: A1II mini-jack output
    Control S: 2 Control S mini-jack inputs and 2 Control S mini-jack outputs
    Speakers: binding post outputs for front, surround, surround back, center, and 3rd room speakers (not 5-way, because a plastic collar prevents their use with spade lugs and they are positioned too far apart to be used with dual banana plugs)
    AC Outlets: 2 switched AC outlets (120W/1A Max)
    AC In: AC jack for use with the supplied AC power cord
    Impedance Selector Switch
    Notes
    Backup Memory: Once a sound field is customized, the changes are stored in memory indefinitely, unless the receiver is disconnected from power for about 1 week. If the receiver is disconnected from power for about 1 week, all of the tuner presets will be cleared from the receiver's memory.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    Did you notice there is an equalizer for each channel?[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    """"EQ: you may select one of 23 treble frequencies (ranging from 1kHz to 10kHz), one of 37 mid frequencies (ranging from 198Hz to 10kHz), and one of 21 bass frequencies (ranging from 99Hz to 1kHz) for each channel. You can adjust the level of those frequencies +/-10dB, in 1 dB steps """"""
    WOW!
    My 3802 does not have this and I think the 898 and 989 doesn't have it.
    It does come in handy.
    I love my Denon and do not regret getting it(made in Japan=quality unit), but if I would do it over, I would get the 5es. I should have listened to
    GEO
    !!!!! I did not know that a tone control is all you get on most AV RCVRS.
     
  9. CalvinC

    CalvinC Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the 333ES and have not regretted buying it! I listened to several receivers including Dennon in the same price range and I preferred the Sony. To me the Sony had a better sound to it, it was not to bright nor was it to warm. This is not a blast on any other brand, I just liked the Sony sound better. I recommend buying whatever sounds best to you in your budget. Whatever you buy, I hope enjoy!
     
  10. Lenny O

    Lenny O Auditioning

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    Thanks for the welcome! I appreciate the comments so far. I was leery of some potential Sony-bashing... I know a lot of purists out there don't like them for whatever reason, and they are entitled to their opinions. But those opinions sometimes cloud the issue. Thanks also Earl for your brief explanation on Dolby ProLogic II. I wasn't sure what that was. I'll give some consideration to the 5ES, although I am not comfortable spending the extra $300 over the 3ES to get the extra feature set.

    I am curious if the ability to decode certain digital formats is software based. If so, the RS232 interface may provide an upgrade path. Why else have one, unless they sell a software package to set the receiver up as opposed to using the remote and front panel controls. Of course that would also be a great idea. I had a ham radio rig like that once. It had so many features, it was easier to set up on a PC than use the radio's built-in controls/menu system.

    You have successfully talked me out of the DB1070. Now... I will think some about the 5ES.
     
  11. Ted Ross

    Ted Ross Second Unit

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    Doesnt it also have 192kHz/24-bit DACs? Im seriously thinking of getting the 5es as well. My only concern is if it shares the same amps as the db1070. The 1070 didnt do so well in Sound & Visions review. I thought the DB series had the same amps as the es series-they just didnt have the same processers.
     
  12. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Search the main hardware forum for a review of the 5ES. It got much less than a stellar review. The recommendation of the reviewer was to opt for the 3ES for less $$$.
     
  13. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    Geo has one and will tell you all. Search his name for posts. A couple of others have the 5es on this forum, but are gun shy due to all the Sony bashing. When Sony does it right it is the best. They don't always get it right, but sometimes they do. The Mavica cameras are used at Universities all over the world as well as my house. A great series of cameras. I have a 333es mega changer/very nice. So they are making some good products. Their new wide screen HDTV RPTV is very nice.

    Don't cross Sony off your list!

    I've owned Onkyo=outstanding company.

    Denon has impressed me also.

    Years ago I had a Marantz 4400(quad with oscilloscope) gold circuit rcvr(wow what a beast). I could not wear it out and installed it as a PA system in a large facility.
     
  14. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    Found the info for you!
    """"And check out the impeccable ES construction: frame-and-beam chassis, short signal paths, eight channels' worth of 192kHz/24-bit D/A conversion, non-linear heat sink fins to fight resonance — attention to every detail, inside and out! It even has an RS-232C port to enable future upgrades!
    """""""""[​IMG]
     
  15. Lenny O

    Lenny O Auditioning

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    Thanks to all. I went ahead and ordered the DA3ES from Oade. I have a plumber here today working on a sewer line problem, and as he is going along, the bill is getting higher... so high in fact that the DA5ES became just a pipe dream. No pun intended [​IMG] .
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Ted, the ES receivers have a better power supply than the 'DB1070.
     
  17. Earl Simpson

    Earl Simpson Supporting Actor

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    The 3es does not have es discrete/6.1 discrete! 5es has it all!
     
  18. James Elvick

    James Elvick Supporting Actor

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    So what is the verdict on the 5ES? I'm considering using this a a pre-pro only. I love the 2 multi channel inputs for DVD-A and SACD, the adjustable crossovers and some of the other features. It would be replacing a Denon 3802. What would be the difference in the dac's and stereo sound quality?

    James Elvick
     
  19. JackS

    JackS Supporting Actor

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    Assuming a clean preamp section in the D3/5A, (and no reason to beleive otherwise until heard) these two receivers should be as perfect as a receiver can be for this type of setup. Since there really is no compitition due to the dual 5ch ins and the bass mgt. features. Anyone interested in using a receiver as a pre/pro, is making a big mistake if they refuse to take a look at these two units. A simple listen at a local dealer comparing the Sonys, should answer all questions.
     
  20. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Jack,

    What a refreshing outlook on the subject! Too many people dismiss Sony ES receivers out of hand. I, for one, appreciate your objectivity.

    Lenny,

    Congratulates on your purchase. I hope it works out for you. Let us know!
     

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