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Sony buys MGM, Ziv shows probably buried forever (1 Viewer)

Art_AD

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I think you are jumping the gun with regards to MGM home video and the whole Sony merger. I believe the way the deal is set up it will (at least for a while ) be set up as a joint venture and will still be run as a separate company (at least the home video DVD division. Also the following is from an article in the 9/9 Hollywood Reporter with regards to Green Acres & Mr. Ed:

MGM Home Entertainment has scored well with DVD releases of Sci Fi Channel's "Stargate SG-1" and both seasons of the 1960s sci-fi series "The Outer Limits." The distributor also has released initial volumes of "Mister Ed" and "Green Acres" and plans to unveil sophomore installments of those series in early 2005.

"We did tremendously well (with 'Ed' and 'Acres')," MGMHE senior vp marketing Alex Carloss says. "Combined, we sold more than 200,000 units, targeting the older, more nostalgic audience."

He adds that MGMHE "has so much more classic programming in our library, series like 'thirtysomething,' 'Fame,' 'In the Heat of the Night' (and) 'Cagney & Lacey' — loads of product. Our goal is to drip-feed this stuff out to the marketplace in the years ahead; we really want to get the classic stuff out, just because there's so much demand for it."
 

ScottCor

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Interestingly enough both of those were released with no extras and a low price point..and they seem to be quite happy with the results...Maybe some of the other studios will get a clue and learn something by it..Extras are great for movies but for TV shows just give me them uncut and simple.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Scott, if they released Mary Tyler Moore season 2, in the way that you mentioned, I not only would be very happy I'd buy it on release date. So would probably everyone that bought season 1, but unfortunately probably not much more than that. I am a fan of the show, I love the show, I'm sad that they're not releasing more seasons, but at the same time I recognize why they aren't. As a fan of the show, I don't necessarily like the reasoning behind why no more seasons are coming out, but as a realist that has learned a lot from people like Randy, and Gord, and several others I have a better understanding of how this process works than I did even a couple of years ago.

I'd just like to point out that in a lot of cases the studios just can't win.

People complain because there is no MTM season 2.

Yet they also complain that Lost in Space season 2 is split in to 2 parts, in order that the series might continue on DVD.

So Fox in this case, does exactly what you're asking and they take steps that from a business standpoint make sense and they split Lost in Space in to 2 parts, and a thread over here at HTF accuses the studio of all manner of different practices and none of them favorable. Even though those same people would be complaining just as loud if season 2 of Lost in Space never saw the light of day.

I'm sorry if you think I'm trying to kill your buzz, the reality is though that there are a few shows that I'd like to see on DVD (WKRP in Cincinnati tops the list) but I am able to understand and recognize why the studio won't be releasing it, because given music costs it would be very difficult for them to turn a profit on it, or in order to do so they might have to charge more for the set to offset some of the cost, and a higher price means less people are likely to buy it. We're not even talking about bonus materials, they could release it barebones, but it doesn't change the fact that music in the episodes is a problem.

Sure, music isn't going to be a problem for every show, but that doesn't mean that some of these older shows don't have problems of their own.

The thing is that as was mentioned these studios have limited resources, and I don't understand why it is appropriate to ask a studio to use words in this thread "make a lot of nickels" when they have properties that will "make them a lot of quarters".
 

ScottCor

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Once again I see what your saying, but I just can't agree with a couple points..first of all I am never going to feel sorry for the poor studios their doing just fine.. thanks ..I want quality shows on DVD. They are in the entertainment business, they started this TV to DVD thing so figure out a way to do it that makes sense for them and us. It has been proven by other companies that it can be done even with older product, it's all on how you go about it in most cases..example: Green Acres..ranked 409 overall on tvshowsondvd.com...Mary Tyler Moore ranked 213 overall..MGM comes on and says gosh were happy with the results for GA and want to release more..on the other hand FOX says MTM just didn't do it for us and sory to screw you but we are..the difference?..Fox didn't know what they were doing and released MTM with a higher price point and invested a ton of money into extra features..MGM released the whole uncut first season of GA at a low price point and no extras...simple as that..All I'm saying is if they handle older titles smartley we wouldn't even be discussing this..I realize you have learned allot from reading these boards but what I'm saying is the stuidos themselves are still learning(well at least they should be learning)..no one really knows what works yet but I'm seeing a pattern and I wish they would too with older titles.
 

Jason Seaver

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I don't think anybody is asking you to do so. However, there is a real tendency on these threads to not examine the full context when demanding that the studios do what on as an individual wants.
 

ScottCor

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Which is why I explained myself afterwards and gave a good example and could give many more just like it..certain studios do not have a clue about releasing TV on DVD yet..hopefully they will learn and try again...simple. done with this thread.
 

Jason Seaver

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My experience is that when I say something I'm not involved in is simple, it's seldom as simple as I thought it to be.
 

KerryK

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Thank you to Jason and Casey. Particularly for this:


Seriously, how would any of you feel if the company you worked for decided to make LESS money because a minority of their customers would prefer it that way. I'm sure you'd gladly take a pay cut for the sake of the fans.
 

ScottCor

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That made no sense..If that said company released a product with a bad concept/packaging/over spent budget on unneeded features or was over priced for the market..or better yet never released said product at all then you make nothing or less..is that the consumers fault...no it's the companies fault for not knowing the market and not doing their homework, plus not learning from other companies good examples. I would say some of the above opionions are just as biased towards the entertainment industry as I am as "just a fan" .. don't forget were the ones who make the paycheck possible in the first place. Who said I was the minority?? who doesn't want reasonable prices, good product, and full releases..it effects everyone or at least it does when it gets around to a series you want then they change their tune.
 

Randy A Salas

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And the reason MGM did that is because it had a year and a half to examine Fox's mistake and to try something different. (Fox released MTM in September 2002; MGM did GA earlier this year.) And Green Acres has sold about 5,000 copies less than MTM, so it's all relative.

MGM also has lowered expectations because it has released so few TV shows on DVD. Fox, on the other hand, has some of the biggest TV sellers of all time--including M*A*S*H, which I believe is the biggest-selling "classic" TV show on DVD--and thus has higher expectations (X-Files, Simpsons, Family Guy, etc.) and a lower threshold for failures, like it or not.

It should also be noted that MGM blundered (my opinion) by releasing Mr. Ed as a best-of collection--with bogus reasoning, too--when all indications were that fans only want season sets. And it's likely to use that model with future sets, too.
 

Joe Karlosi

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Then you obviously didn't really read the thread. There were some folks in there fully in support of splitting LIS in two in order to insure its release... I was one of them.
 

Joe Karlosi

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I don't doubt it for a minute. But what's the alternative - to just flush the older, lesser-selling material down the toilet? Merely because it had the disadvantage of not being a part of the same decade as DVD was? I think there's room for both.

In this next example I know the following shows I'm going to list are all from different studios, but the general point is the same:
What's wrong with releasing season sets of FEAR FACTOR, THE OSBOURNES, FRIENDS, THE SIMPSONS and THE SOPRANOS, but at the same time offering THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES, THE ODD COUPLE, PETTICOAT JUNCTION and THAT GIRL? It's all profit.
If anyone objects to any of the older shows, then the simple fact is that they think the studios should have an extra $100 mill a year instead of a "measley" $50 mill (just a loose example). Once again, WKRP IN CINCINNATI is never going to sell as much as FRIENDS will in 2004.
I'm not saying to release WKRP "instead," though...
 

Jason Seaver

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You mistake those of us playing devil's advocate here. I don't give a damn how much profit Fox makes or think any business "deserves" anything. I'm just trying to explain what the rationale is.
 

ScottCor

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Ok, I can agree with this...Best of sets suck....never said MGM was perfect...they all make mistakes but I hope they are learning..don't give up on a old show because of a mistep just fix it the next time..in the past month I have bought: Night Gallery Season 1, Magnum PI season 1, Frasier Season 1 & 2, and Due South 2..I am trying to feed as many studios families as I can but as a consumer I'm taking a leap of faith that there will be more sets for all of these..incomplete sets also suck..
 

Randy A Salas

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I'm not defending anything and I don't see where I've made excuses. I'm just trying to explain what has happened and to give some perspective.

Not sure what age has to do with anything.
 

ScottCor

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It has to do with respect for what came before...found very little in younger generations now..when I was a teen I loved old black and white movies from the 40's and 50's, and that was 30 yers ago at the time..many of my friends did too..and loved old shows 20 years old as well. Everything current now is just a rehash of what's been done before..it's very sad really. TV is sad now. Let's eat bugs, let's watch celebrities kids we wouldn't wish on our worst enemy, let's see people play for the camera in reality show # 5,000, CSI Iowa is next..if your my age or older you should be sad...no wonder some of use want these old shows back, at least they brought a smile.

I'm rather tired with this thread and would rather talk about good shows that are coming out on DVD so will do that instead..carry on defending the almighty buck people...
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Well said.

On another issue, there seems to be a level of implied elitism in this thread. There are people that say that older shows are better and new shows are crap, and we aught to put out the older shows now, and none of you 20 somethings have any appreciation for older shows.

The implied elitism comes from the fact that if you take that logic to heart, than the people that like the older shows over the newer ones are smarter or what have you for not enjoying crappy TV shows. Again this thought has not been expressly stated, but it has been implied.

In his first post to me, Scott just assumed that all of my TV box sets were newer shows, and almost wanted to dismiss what I was saying simply based on this point.

I believe to each his own. I like a lot of current shows, I like a lot of older shows. I don't care if a person hasn't liked a show since the 70's, and I don't care if the oldest show a person enjoys is the Simpsons.

Again though, a dangerous generalization for this forum is that none of us 20 somethings have any appreciation for classic television or classic film. What some of you elder statesmen need to realize is that a lot of us grew up on these shows that you hold so dearly because of sindication and nick at nite, and channels like that, and so we have a sense of fondness for those shows as well.

At HTF you are dealing with a very diverse dynamic of people. You find people in there 20's that enjoy all the classic films like Citizen Kane etc. and don't like the stuff coming out today, and you find older people that even though they have a fondness for the classics also enjoy some of what is being released today. You have everything in between.

Just because we can see why sstudios don't tend to release as much catalog product as they do more current stuff when it comes to TV shows, does not mean our level of respect for these shows or our individual tastes need to be called in to question.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Nothing, but in edition to what Jason said, if you get back sales figures that show the more current shows are selling better, why is it not appropriate to shelve the older stuff, and begin to bring out more new product like Will and Grace, King of the Hill, or whatever? If the classic stuff were selling more than I'd say hey why not bring out the Andy Griffith show, and All in the Family instead of more Friends or the Simpsons?

Sure, as fans of those shows, either group you'd be bummed out if the release was canceled, but the studios have to look at more than just fan reaction and whether or not you personally like it sometimes the bottomline has to take more importance.
 

Casey Trowbridg

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Then you obviously didn't read the thread, because I also stated that I didn't have a problem with it. But, you also missed the point of that comment.

It doesn't have to be the same person each time, the point is that Fox made 2 different decisions for 2 different shows and got blasted for both of those decisions. So, from this what we learn to the shock of no one is that you can't please everyone, and as the studio they tried to learn from the MTM mistake and rather than discontinue lost in space release it in a different form...and got blasted by some for doing it.

Asking them to explore other options is the theme of this thread I suppose, but you have to know that even if they do this they're going to get blasted for it.
 

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