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Sony already giving up on SACD as a CD replacement.... (1 Viewer)

Michael St. Clair

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If an album was originally recorded in PCM, a DSD master can never be considered the archival master. Only a damned fool would limit himself to a singular upsampled format and assume nothing better will come down the pike. You always want to hang onto the original 16/48 (or 24/48 or whatever) so that you can use that as the source for future upconversions. Hell, better upsampling algorithms for existing high-res formats could easily be around the corner.

I guarantee you that Sony (or any other label) isn't destroying the original PCM masters after converting to DSD. Actions, not politics and spin, determine what the true archival master is.
 

Lee Scoggins

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Hell, better upsampling algorithms for existing high-res formats could easily be around the corner.
True, but you always want to use the highest possible sampling rate (ideally with an analog tape preserved as well) for that future upsampling formula.

We should keep in mind that microphone placement and other parts of the original recording technique are just as important.

:)
 

Anthony Hom

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I think the DVD-video market is a good model to view for SACD or DVD-A to hit mainstream markets. DVD-video is the accepted mainstream now, but people here still complain. Things like pan n scan, no 5.1, are things that become an issue because j6p does not always care about those things.
I predict similar things will happen for SACD going mainstream. Of course, SACD will never become mainstream if SACD can only be played in home theaters. People do have car CD players, boom boxes to take to the beach, portable players on airplanes, trains, car trips, etc.
So if j6p is posed with the question, do I want a CD that plays on all my players, or I have to buy a disc that plays on 1 player, and buy another of the same title thing that will play on the other 5 players, what will the answer be? I know there are HUNDREDS of SACD players out there, but how many are car players and portables? Of course who cares about those players, they can't achieve the quality of a home theater. but let's be fair, alot of people do enjoy listening to music outside their home theaters and that's the market that SACD must sell to in order to be mainstream, which they are doing almost 0% right now.
 

Lee Scoggins

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but let's be fair, alot of people do enjoy listening to music outside their home theaters and that's the market that SACD must sell to in order to be mainstream, which they are doing almost 0% right now.
Anthony, I think most would agree that two channel audiophiles are Super Audio's most vocal proponents.

Also, the exclusive hybrid releases of Stones, Dylan and Pink Floyd will solve all of the problems you mentioned.
 

RaulR

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Apparently, so much of the music I listen to was transferred to CD so badly the first time around (Peter Gabriel, Dire Straits, Genesis, Yes, Rolling Stones, Van Halen, etc, etc) that they had to be remastered (in some cases more than once) and re-released.
If only it were that simple.

It's true that many remasters feature improved sound quality, but it's also true that many remasters are actually worse than the original CDs. I'd go into some detail but the issues involved are too complicated and far-ranging to summarize in one post. Instead, I recommend you visit the Steve Hoffman music forum and learn for yourself. Just try doing a search for any artist or title you can think of, and I can almost guarantee you'll find out more than you ever wanted to know. Be warned though: That way lies obsession, and maybe insanity. ;)
 

Craig_Kg

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As someone pointed out they should build in compressors in the players for J6P (along with P&S on-the-fly for his DVD viewing stupor).
Damned right. It'd actually be useful for car audio too. As for the P&S thing, why don't they just set the P&S flag and have it centered on the image for anamorphic DVDs?
 

Rachael B

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I really don't see why so many think that widespread acceptance of hybrid SACD, which is the format's only real chance to go mainstream, would ruin the format. I don't see it. If the CD format is any example, it is, isn't it? CD has never had a shortage of audiophile geared titles. Gold CD's, HDCD, XLR (or whatever that...I think JVC thang has for initials), and add in the various audiophile labels that put the extra sweat into making reg-lar CD's sound their best and tell me where is the shortage of audiophile or so-called ;) audiophile titles? Sorry I can't resist a bit of vinyl hummor.:D

I'm arguing that as long as there are audiophiles, there will be audiophile releases. Furthermore, if SACD went mainstream by virtue of blind sheer luck, if nothing else, a high percentage of them would sound good, better than CD, certainly. The more SACD's there are, the more good ones there will be.

Hardly anybody's very favourite artists are on SACD yet if you ask most people. One of my favourite artists that isn't on SACD yet is Boz Scaggs and he even has a whole string of Columbia albums. Go figur...?

I'd take SACD for a mainstream format in a heartbeat!
 

John Kotches

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Rachael,

If you can find it, the Deluxe Limited Edition packaging of Boz' Dig is a very well done disc. The DLE packaging has both CD and DVD-Audio discs included.

Horns, where used, have a super warm, "round" sound to them. Very different than the typical "edge city" constrained/harsh horn sound recording on many popular music titles.

Well worth the effort to find, IMO.

Regards,
 

Rachael B

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Thanks John!:) But, you're too late. I bought that sucker on the spot when it came out. I haven't heard it in quite some time because my RP91 won't play it. Remember those threads? Yeah, way back when. I hope my next DVD-A player will play it. As much as I like SACD, I have about 20 DVD-A & DAD titles. I miss DIG. It's my fav of my DVD-A's. I take it with me whenever I go look at universal players. The Pioneer 47i doesn't like it either. What are you playing your's on these dayz? Best wishes!
 

John Kotches

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Rachael,

The Kenwood 5700 is being used on the "real world" system, and my main reference playback is the Meridian 598 digital into the 568.2MM.

The Meridian solution with digital from the player to the processor is the way both Hi-Res formats should be handled, anything less for multi-channel is a compromise.

Regards,
 

Justin Lane

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Damned right. It'd actually be useful for car audio too. As for the P&S thing, why don't they just set the P&S flag and have it centered on the image for anamorphic DVDs?
Funny you say this, as many OEM CD players have had compression features for years. I know Ford has included this feature in their players from at least 1994 up until the present. And come to think of it, the last walkman I purchased about 5 years ago from Sony also had a compression type setting. So I think the technology is already there and has been implmented for some time as far as user selectable compression goes. Really it is just record companies fault at this time. It seems like they want cookie cuter artists with cookie cutter engineering.

J
 

Lee Scoggins

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It seems like they want cookie cuter artists with cookie cutter engineering.
This is presently true, which is one more reason to go to high rez music where effects will stand out more. It may initially put pressure on recording teams to do more simpler and accurate recording IMHO.

The current crop of engineers is brought up to use many channels across an expensive Neve (or other) mixing board that are mixed down to two channels. Rarely does an instructor point out that this adds circuits which always degrade the sound. Rarer still is the idea from the audiophile labels (and well proven IMHO) that having every musician in the studio at the same time creates an energy on an acoustic piece that adds to the passion/emotion of the music. Most teach that you can record musicians separately - and this almost never works and it destroys the natural soundstage in the process.
 

KeithH

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Robert said:

It's true that many remasters feature improved sound quality, but it's also true that many remasters are actually worse than the original CDs.
Absolutely! Many remasters sound great, but in a number of instances, the original pressings, which were made in West Germany or Japan in the old days, sound better. Listen to first pressings from the WEA labels that have this sort of design:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/at...&postid=155092
 

Kevin C Brown

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I think that if SACD stays "small" and more "audiophile oriented" than mainstream, then there's a better chance of SACDs actually continuing to be better quality than CD. Not "elitist" or anything, I just look to the current state of vinyl vs CD as the example. Most vinyl that comes out nowadays, because it is only a niche, "audiophile" oriented product, is better quality than CD. Just look through any A Music Direct catalog, or Stereophile for confirmation of that. Or ask Michael Fremer.

Maybe this is a better way of saying it: because you have to go to "extra" trouble now to burn an lp, you wouldn't take that extra trouble unless there was something to offer sound quality wise. Well, I have what I'm trying to get across in my head, but I don't seem to be articulating it very well. :)
 

Rachael B

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I disaggree Kevin. IF SACD gets big there will be even more audiophile releases and the "reg-lar" releases will vary in qualty just like CD's do 2-day, that's predictable. furthermore, I've been less than pleased with alot of the vinyl I've bought in the last few years too. Too many of them have been poorly pressed. Maybe my luck has been particularly bad, but I'd rather have a good SACD every time. Best wishes!
 

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