Sony 4ES power rating (1 Viewer)

[Yogi]

Aaron, thanks for the clarification. I am not really familiar with Sony receivers and hence the ignorance on my part.

 

[Ted Ross]

Perhaps the Sony was stuck in 4 ohm rather than 8 ohm mode

I highly doubt the S&V tester, David Ranada, would be that careless

 

[Craig_Kg]

I meant maybe the switch was faulty.

I think the Sony sound quality would have been hugely affected and commented on in the article as being notably inferior to the others if the power rating was so bad.

 

[AndyHangartner]

Wayne,
I gotta agree with you. People bashing the Sony w/o having one IN THEIR HOUSE. I have the 4es and a Denon 4802. I don't give a crap about specs, the Sony kicks the Denons butt period. I have both, right now. As far as the four ohm switch, it is set to 4 ohm on mine with my PSB stratus silver i's. Four of them, with the C6i center. At -25 on the volume knob it is almost unbearable loud. 95 to 110 db depending on the action. I have never taken it past -15, too damn loud, and I like movies loud!. The 4/8 ohm switch didn't make much difference, a small variation in the volume setting. I also used two Citation 7.1's, an Aragon 8008x5 and a Balanced Audio Technology VK60 as amps. With the exception of the BAT for the smoother tube sound, the difference between the power amps was negligible, no matter what anyone thinks they should have been. They were so close I now don't use an amp. My Christmas Party had people gathered around oohing and ah hing over this receiver. Then holding their ears when they wanted loud, 112db.
For the money and then some, this receiver is awesome!
andy
btw, look for the Denon in the For sale ads

 

[Ted Ross]

I gotta agree with you. People bashing the Sony w/o having one IN THEIR HOUSE

I dont see any Sony bashing here-just people with inquiring minds

 

[Wayne Ernst]

I dont see any Sony bashing here-just people with inquiring minds

Fine. Then, we'll call it "inquiring minds." However, I would suggest that anyone who has questions regarding the Sound and Vision test on the Sony STR-DA4ES - buy the magazine and read the actual test results. Each person will perceive something different after reading it. Clearly, the review was not a negative review - it was just lacking the test results for 5 channels being driven at one time.

Borders along with Barnes & Noble don't have the January 2003 issue on the shelves yet. However, I did find the issue for sale at my local Wal-Mart store.

Maybe the comments were not actual "bashing" comments of the Sony receiver. However, there were some silly comments being made - suggesting that the receiver was in 4 Ohm operation, etc.

Ted, my offer still stands where I will contribute $$ towards the testing if someone would be able to get their 4ES to a private tester to have the output tests performed.

 

[Seth_L]

I got my copy yesterday in the mail.

Our standard all-channels-driven power measurement could not be taken because, Sony tells us, the receiver was not designed to deliver full power to all channels simultaneously. Rather, it was designed to exceed the EIA/CEA amplifier specification 490-A, in which each channel is tested individually at full power while all other channels run at one-eighth rated power.

What a bunch of losers S&V has become on this one. They make it sound like their equipment wouldn't test it due to an incompatibility with the receiver and they had to go to Sony for the explanation. They could have at least said something like, "We did not perform this test due to requests from the manufacturer. Sony's position is that the receiver was not designed to deliver 110x7 simultaneously, but rather comply with EIA/CEA amplifier specification 490-A which states..."

What a crock... Time to send a nastygram to the editor.

Seth

 

[Yogi]

I also used two Citation 7.1's, an Aragon 8008x5 and a Balanced Audio Technology VK60 as amps. With the exception of the BAT for the smoother tube sound, the difference between the power amps was negligible, no matter what anyone thinks they should have been. They were so close I now don't use an amp.

Now thats some high praise for the 4ES. BTW do you still have the amps sitting around or did you already sell them?

 

[Mark Davenport]

Why bother with all of this bickering just get a dedicated 5 channel amp. That's what I did with my Sony V444ES and I no longer have to worry about if it meets it's spec or not. I'm much happier with a dedicated amp and will never use a reciver by itself again.

 

[Ted Ross]

Why bother with all of this bickering just get a dedicated 5 channel amp

Thats true, The DA5es/4es/7es would make an excellent pre/pro. I pondered this option when I had my da5es.

 

[Craig_Kg]

However, there were some silly comments being made - suggesting that the receiver was in 4 Ohm operation, etc.

Hey, I was just trying to suggest a reason why the 1070 got such a poor test rating in S&V when I have seen it rate much better (~5x70W in 8ohm mode, 5x40W in 4 ohm mode) in other magazine tests :frowning:. The 1070 gets continually bashed in forums on this S&V figure just like the Marantz 7200 gets hammered (on an apparently faulty unit).

 

[Diallo B]

Hello Folks,
I am thoroughly disappointed with all of the negative commentary concerning the Sony STR-DA4ES. This is a very competent piece of equipment.
I recently purchased this receiver after months of research as I upgraded to HDTV. Of primary interest to me was the component video switching capability. I looked at the Denons, HK's, Onkyo's etc. I ended up choosing the str-da4es for its sound, feature set and because I am very familiar with Sony receivers.
After I told my Circuit City salesperson (an individual that I have bought from for 4 years now) that I was going with the da4es he was very disappointed and asked me to bring it into the CC show room when I got it so he could show me in a side by side comparison that I should have went with the HK AVR 525. We hooked up each receiver to the same equipment and used the same media to do the comparison. Well, the bottom line after the comparison is that I ended up liking the da4es even more. Even the CC rep was impressed. He stated that for the money ($699 shipped) that I could not have gotten a better receiver.
Now, as far as Sound and Vision goes, I think they made a grave error with their omission and weak explanation for not including the specs for all channels driven. Hopefully they will include it in the corrections area of next month’s magazine. However, the review was definitely on the positive side. Anyone that has actually read the review has to admit that the reviewer (Daniel Kumin) was impressed by the receiver. In his concluding paragraph Mr. Kumin states, "In short the Sony STR-DA4ES is a powerful receiver that offers a wide range of useful features. If a highly capable audio/video control center is what you are looking for, be sure to check it out."
He also states the following:
High Points
-Impressive seven channel power and quality
-Independent crossover settings for each channel or pair
-Extensive EQ options
-Unusual, easy to use remote control
-Attractive, compact, nicely finished
Low Points
-Remote is nonlearning and some operations are cumbersome
-Only one channel-balance memory
Since Sound and Vision has a history of exposing electronics shortcomings, why would they not expose the da4es now? Especially if the da4es only delivered 1/8 power to all channels! This whole debate is very interesting and I hope that we can get to the bottom of it very soon. Until then, if you are in the market for a da4es you will not be disappointed.
DB

 

[terence]

Thank You Diallo B for your comments and giving us a preview of the S&V review. I live in Atlanta and have not recieved mine in the mail yet. I do agree with everyone about why S&V chose not to show the 4ES specs, but I do not agree with some of the negative commentary as well about the 4ES.

If you don't own one in your home or have not audition the 4ES for yourself, I think some people should keep the negative comments until there have done so. (IMO)

 

[Mark Davenport]

While th DA4ES is a good receiver for the price if you have used previous ES receivers you will be highly disappointed in the DA4Es as Sony has ripped out a lot of EQ and Surround DSP features that made the Sony ES's so flexible in the first place. It's quite annoying for Sony to have done this with their last two models the DA5ES and DA4ES both have limiting catch 22 like EQ and DSP capabilities compared to older model ES receivers.

 

[Ted Ross]

If you don't own one in your home or have not audition the 4ES for yourself, I think some people should keep the negative comments until there have done so. (IMO)

Again, I have read every reply to this post & still do not see any "negative" comments about the da4es.

 

[AaronBatiuk]

...asked me to bring it into the CC show room when I got it so he could show me in a side by side comparison... with the HK AVR 525... Well, the bottom line after the comparison is that I ended up liking the da4es even more. Even the CC rep was impressed. He stated that for the money ($699 shipped) that I could not have gotten a better receiver.

I agree. The 4ES is far from perfect, but it is a great receiver for the price. All things considered (including the price), I am quite happy with my purchase.

 

[Yogi]

After I told my Circuit City salesperson (an individual that I have bought from for 4 years now) that I was going with the da4es he was very disappointed and asked me to bring it into the CC show room when I got it so he could show me in a side by side comparison that I should have went with the HK AVR 525. We hooked up each receiver to the same equipment and used the same media to do the comparison. Well, the bottom line after the comparison is that I ended up liking the da4es even more.

I have 2 questions about the comparison test:

1) Was the test level matched atleast with an SPL meter?
2) Was the test done in 2 channel (with/without sub) music or 5 channel (with/without sub) HT mode?

I am not asking these questions in offence of the ES or in defence of the HK, but it is very important to control these variables before making any judgement.

 

[Diallo B]

Ted and Yogi,

After a review of all of the posts on this thread I can agree that there are not technically any 'negative comments' regarding the 4es. However, there is alot of toungue in cheek commentary defaming the 4es. While I do not like that S&V omitted the 5 channel test, after hearing the 4es I am very satisfied. I have had Sony ES receivers previous to the 4es and I am very satisfied with the my current receiver. I have never used the DSP modes as I found them to be a degredation in sound quality. I have always used the Auto Format Decode options. Everyone has their own cup of tea and those DSP's sound like garbage to me.

Concerning the 'very unscientific' comparison test.

1. There was no SPL meter used. However, the CC Rep and I are not novices either. I believe that we did a good job matching sound output. I understand that there was no way we could get a identical match in sound output with our ears, but after years of demoing equipment I am sure that we were close.

2. We did tests with L/R Front+sub and L/R Front-sub for 2 channel music. The media used was Dead Presidents Soundtrack Vol. I-Track 14 by Danny Elfman, The Very Best of John Coltrane, Unwrapped Vol. 2 Tracks 5 and 6, The Superman Theme ext. ver., The Star Wars Theme ext. ver., the Empire Strikes Back Theme ext. ver. and Ride Of The Valkyries - Sir George Solti/The Vienna. All tonal controls were left flat.

3. We also did 5.1 comparison test only with the subwoofer. The media used was U-571 DTS (chapter 6), Saving Prv. Ryan DTS (Normandy Invasion), SW Episode 2 (Count Dooku Battle) and The Hunted (1995)(Chapter 1 & 9 plus various chapters-Anyone that does not own this DVD please rent it and see how detailed even the most subtle sound effects seem. It also has a GREAT score which more than makes up for its B-Movie status.) All tonal controls were left flat.

4. Speakers used:
All Polk
Center: CSI40
Front: RTI150
Rear: R50
Sub: Velodyne VAI CHT 15

To say the least we attracted a small crowd of customers and employees outside of the glass wondering what was going on in the Demo Room. After a couple of hours the CC Rep and I both agreed that the 4es sounded more detailed and natural on music and it seemed to bring out subtle nuances in movies that were not apparent in the HK 525.

As I stated previously this was a 'very unscientific' comparison test. The CC Rep that attempted to sell me on the HK 525 changed his mind about the 4es. I am very satisfied with my decsion to go with the 4es.

Any addtional questions please let me know.

DJB

 

[IraSWeiss]

I have a Sony STR-DA80ES and DB830 so I am definitely not Sony bashing.

What confuses me is that while S&V did not test (or perhaps, print the results of the test) with five channels driven per page 58, they did test and print the results with five channels driven for the Sherwood RD-7108 on page 72 of the same issue.

I have a problem with this: they should follow one procedure for all amplifier tests or change the procedure. Being consistent is what editors are for! If Sony would only give S&V a review copy of the 4ES on the condition that they do one channel and stereo tests only, we should know that. If Sony threated to pull a portion of its advertising if S&V printed what Sony felt to be an unfavorable power measurement, we should know that too.

What's next: reviews of LCD XBR TV's in B&W?

I hope S&V publishes an addendum with five channel power ratings

 

[Yogi]

There was no SPL meter used. However, the CC Rep and I are not novices either. I believe that we did a good job matching sound output. I understand that there was no way we could get a identical match in sound output with our ears, but after years of demoing equipment I am sure that we were close.

You do know that a difference of 0.5 db can skew the results one way or another.

Also the only way, IMHO, to reliably test two amps/receivers is by running them 2 channel direct/full range (without sub). That way you are not hearing the sub amp and are ruling out the variations (voltage and output impedance) between the sub preouts of the two receivers.

I am sure both the 4ES and the 525 are competent pieces of gear with a slightly different sound flavor. Its only a matter of mating it with the right kind of speakers to get the best sound.