Sony 4ES being reaplaced. Anyone have any info? (1 Viewer)

[Aaron H]

I saw on another forum that the Sony 4ES is going to be replaced in the next few months. It seems to me that the receiver just came out, but I guess maybe it's been a while. Anyway, anyone have any info on the replacements?

Thanks, Aaron

 

[Rick_FL]

I doubt it is being replaced yet. Sony has never been that fast at replacing a product. the 4ES doesn't even have a year under its belt yet. Maybe Mid-year they will release something else. Probably to add i-Link to it

 

[Aaron H]

That's what I kinda thought too. But since the statement came from (what I think to be) a reputable source (A guy who works at Onecall), I thought there could definitely be some truth. Who knows. I don't know what else they could really add to the 4ES anyway.

Aaron

 

[Eric Lo]

May be this is the reason:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=130024

 

[Victor Chan]

I assume the replacements are the ones being discussed in this thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=130024

Apparently, Sony's ES line of receivers are from the next generation onward going to be digitally amplified. Released late summer according to the discussion.

 

[Mark All]

My guess is that Sony would put something new on the market late this year which would mean a news release in a couple of months if they are going to do anything. Sony's home theater receiver product seems to be strangely aligned right now with a DA4ES and DA7ES close in performance but far apart in price and nothing above. The DACs in the DA4ES and DA7ES could stand to be updated too to be in alignment with Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo, and Harman Kardon in the same price range.

 

[Seth_L]

Mark,

Did you even bother to read the other thread the two people above you linked to?

I've not heard anyone other than you complain about the inferior quality of the DACs in the latest generation of Sony ES recievers.

Sony should take some interesting strides ahead of their competition with the new models though.

Seth

 

[Dmitry]

In all fairness to Mark — the press release mentioned in those threads is a European one; when and how US will follow suit is anyone's guess, although one can use previous years to guess accurately enough as to how European and US releases correspond to each other.

 

[NickSP]

Mark:

the DA4ES and DA7ES could stand to be updated too to be in alignment with Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo, and Harman Kardon in the same price range.

Please explain why the DACs in the ES line are inferior?

 

[Mark All]

Yes, I read the threads and understand Sony's all-digital concept.

Sony used their old 96k DACs instead of 192k DACs in the current ES line for their receivers. The digital amplification may be a good and less expensive way to get around the need to upgrade the DACs in their receivers. I'm hopeful the new ES product line comes to the U.S. and see no reason why it won't later this year.

Every other manufacturer switched to 192k DACs during the last upgrade cycle. Sony has them, but didn't use them for some reason. I had a DA4ES for a month and returned it because I found the sound to be overly bright, much like Yamaha used to be a couple of years ago before they also switched. I loved the features of the DA4ES for the price but couldn't live with the sound unfortunately.

The DA4ES and DA7ES seemed to be placeholders to me and I wondered last year why there wasn't more of an upgrade effort from what the DA5ES contained. It's apparent Sony has been working on a really significant upgrade to their receivers. Personally, I'm eager to see what they come out with later this year. One gauge I tend to look at for identifying when new products may come out is whether Crutchfield has drastically cut pricing on things they carry. The DA7ES has had a 25 percent price cut. Nothing on the DA4ES yet though. It's usually a sign something new is coming out when they slash the price on something--they're not known for giving significant discounts unless they really need to move product while they still can.

 

[NickSP]

Mark, according to Aaron Batiuk who seems to have studied the service manuals and has opened the hoods and personally inspected the receivers, the 4ES does have the 192Khz DAcs on the front 2 channels. Aaron is an engineer and someone who articulates his findings pretty well IMHO.
Besides that, if the DACs in Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha are the same then how come they all end up sounding different? A lot has to do with sound than the DACs alone. I am not trying to argue with you but rather suggesting or trying to make a point regarding the DACs.

 

[Craig_Kg]

Also, how are 192kHz DACs superior when when all the digital sources (without iLink etc) are 96kHz at best (including the internal ADCs for the analog inputs)?

 

[Seth_L]

Craig,

C'mon now... We all know that because the number is higher they have to be better.

Seth

 

[Alex Dydula]

All I can think of is Paul Klipsch's famous "Bullshit!"

A!
(smiling)!!

 

[Mark All]

Also, how are 192kHz DACs superior when when all the digital sources (without iLink etc) are 96kHz at best (including the internal ADCs for the analog inputs)?

Possibly upsampling is smoother with 192kHz DACs. This is pretty debatable though. However, why would Texas Instruments put some of their DACs up to 192kHz if there was no value in doing so? On the other hand, I've heard of cases and seen equipment where high-end manufacturers use 44.1 sampling exclusively or believe 96kHz works better with their product. I've even heard a theory that Sony's CD players work better with 96kHz DACs.

I bought the DA4ES in spite of the fact that I thought it had older DACs in it. It was not a selling point and may have deterred other buyers. Marketing and perception plays a huge role in moving A/V equipment. This is why this forum is so great--helps get rid of the misinformation.

I believe Aaron on the front-channel 192kHz DACs in the DA4ES (no substitute for popping the hood!), although I haven't seen it documented anywhere else and have seen many places where owners think the DACs are 96kHz. Maybe Sony's marketing department didn't want to spread the word that they were not using 192kHz Texas Instruments/Burr Brown DACs all around when every other manufacturer went in that direction.

Nick is right--DACs are only one part of the equation. Processing, power supplies, and a number of other things determine the overall quality of a receiver. Every receiver seems to sound a little different to me and I've had five over the last five years.

 

[AaronBatiuk]

Maybe Sony's marketing department didn't want to spread the word that they were not using 192kHz Texas Instruments/Burr Brown DACs all around when every other manufacturer went in that direction.

Ironic, isn't it, that they are using such DACs and not bothering to say so?

If anyone would like to crack open a 4ES to look and see (nothing like seeing the device on the board to confirm it's there), the two DACs are located on the digital board, which is the long vertical board that spans the entire right wall (when looking at the front of the receiver). The two DACs are IC1601 and IC1602, and are located toward the bottom, near the back.

 

[Mark All]

quote:

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Do you know for sure that the DACs in the Sony are inferior just because they are not "Burr-Brown"?
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The DACs in the 4ES are Burr Brown. The fronts are 192/24 and the rest are 96/24.

Hi AaronB,
The above is from your post of February 24 in another thread. Did something change with the multi-channel DAC in the last couple of weeks? You seemed to be certain of the above at the time. This is exactly the kind of information that should be verified before posting. I noticed on the Sony Service site that the original part has been replaced with a new one for the multi-channel DAC. Did you get the original part number from inside your unit? Just interested. And, thanks for checking this stuff out.