Song of the South (1 Viewer)

[mskaye]

I'm always happy to bash Hollywood in general and Disney in particular, but the landscape there is so much more treacherous and complicated than you're describing.

In the case of Disney, they've produced the greatest films in the company's history amidst the alleged creative dearth you describe, as well as absolute dreck.

Don't ask me to explain how great work can emerge from the seeming Black Hole (speaking of Disney dreck) of endless testing and maneuvering and bean counting, but it happens.

As with Hollywood in general, sometimes - miraculously - light flashes out from the Great Black Hole of the Writhing Beast, and it is magnificent.

So Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah - leave the gun; take the cannoli.

I didn't know any of this; thank you for sharing it.

I didn't have a dog in the fight prior to this, but now I want to see the film properly restored and released, uncut, and packed with extras like the history of this actor's life.

We do not honor the possibility of wisdom by hiding from our history.

I suggest many of you watch Douglas Sirk's IMITATION OF LIFE instead of pining for a racist relic of the past, no matter how entertaining you remember it being.

 

[B-ROLL]

Will great comment that Disney knows the films is out there and not stopping it - I have a 16mm rental catalog can u imagine they rented the film to schools up to the 1980's And here is another pic of Mr Baskett
and friend View attachment 173818


And on the set View attachment 173819





So Mr Baskett was the second person of color to win and Oscar?

I used have a similar catalogue - I kept it because had a good list of movies/plots/stars and runtimes. I decided to pitch it as there's IMDb etc.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I'm always happy to bash Hollywood in general and Disney in particular, but the landscape there is so much more treacherous and complicated than you're describing.

Truth is, I don't feel like I am bashing anything, just expressing my opinion. Second, I'm not sure what to call "Hollywood" but I guess the way I take that word when people use it is as a reference to the movie business in general. I think I know what you mean when you say the landscape is treacherous but probably I should not attempt to guess at what you mean.

The things I am saying are generalizations about certain aspects of the thinking behind what takes place. I am not going on a deep dive and some things, related to this discussion, I am not sure how it would go over if we got into them. So, yes, I am avoiding a lot but I also don't want to travel too far from Song of the South and potential reasons why the Disney company has no interest in it.

We could go right to the basics of it that would feature in why there is no interest in it now. Not sure people have in this thread, I don't know if I have read every post here and I feel like there has been more than one discussion of the film. Consider this though, can they do a remake of Song of the South? No, they can't. Can they make sequels or prequels to it? No, they can't. So, by today's standard, this has as much value to Disney as used toilet paper.

It's old, mostly forgotten, can't be turned into a new franchise, and some people that work for Disney don't like it. It is totally useless as a product to them.

In the case of Disney, they've produced the greatest films in the company's history amidst the alleged creative dearth you describe, as well as absolute dreck.

Well, I will admit I have not seen a lot of what Disney has produced over the last 30 years. So, I don't know which pictures you mean but that is subjective. I don't think everybody agrees with what is a great picture. What is great to me is not great to everyone else. Which is fine, I mean, people are entertained by different things.

Don't ask me to explain how great work can emerge from the seeming Black Hole (speaking of Disney dreck) of endless testing and maneuvering and bean counting, but it happens.

If talented people work on something, even if a lot of what they wanted to do is removed, you can sometimes end up with something pretty good. I mean, on pictures made by talented people that were hacked to shreds, I can still find the spark of greatness in them. Which is often better than watching a competently made feature.

As with Hollywood in general, sometimes - miraculously - light flashes out from the Great Black Hole of the Writhing Beast, and it is magnificent.

We do keep coming back hoping that happens, don't we?

 

[roxy1927]

Deleted rant. Nice to get things out of your system and then hit delete.

 

[RobertMG]

I suggest many of you watch Douglas Sirk's IMITATION OF LIFE instead of pining for a racist relic of the past, no matter how entertaining you remember it being.

I do not think Imitation Of Life was that well received in the South - meanwhile SOTS has grossed 65 million to date a lot of racist kiddies I guess?

 

[Will Krupp]

I do not think Imitation Of Life was that well received in the South

That's not the "burn" you think it is, my friend.

SOTS has grossed 65 million to date a lot of racist kiddies I guess?

You're making Iger's point FOR him. Kids (who actually chose the movie as opposed to being taken, or sent, by their parents) wanted to see "Zip a Dee-doo-dah" and the cute cartoon animals. They got everything else the movie has to say, or not say, along with it. Therein lies the issue.

You're right, kids don't know racism but there's a line of thinking (and you're free to agree or disagree with it) that this is how they learn it.

That's the whole case.

 

[mskaye]

I do not think Imitation Of Life was that well received in the South - meanwhile SOTS has grossed 65 million to date a lot of racist kiddies I guess?

I do not think Imitation Of Life was that well received in the South - meanwhile SOTS has grossed 65 million to date a lot of racist kiddies I guess?

That's an absolutely inane point. My comparison has nothing to do with the financial success of either film. The fact that you point that out shows you have no understanding of the underlying issue.

 

[RobertMG]

That's not the "burn" you think it is, my friend.



You're making Iger's point FOR him. Kids (who actually chose the movie as opposed to being taken, or sent, by their parents) wanted to see "Zip a Dee-doo-dah" and the cute cartoon animals. They got everything else the movie has to say, or not say, along with it. Therein lies the issue.

You're right, kids don't know racism but there's a line of thinking (and you're free to agree or disagree with it) that this is how they learn it.

That's the whole case.

I love your comments all the time! My Mom and my Aunt took us to see a film that they had loved as kids too - doing my research on the film it seems Clarence Muse the actor caused a lot of damage to the film he was working on it and left in dispute with Disney and promptly went to the media and trashed the film before it was released - the film upon release garnered negative and positive reviews and comments in the various media of color - proving the film never had a chance to be anything but a football. Disney tried to recreate the folk tales of his youth - he was really just starting to make live action films and the truth is he was wet behind the ears for sure. Thanks for telling me the film is widely out there on of course illegal copies and it is interesting Disney is looking the other way.

 

[RobertMG]

Imitation Of Life is worse than SOTS in many respects Colbert gets very wealthy off of her domestic thank you for your thoughts too!

 

[mskaye]

Imitation Of Life is worse than SOTS in many respects Colbert gets very wealthy off of her domestic thank you for your thoughts too!

I'm not talking about the Colbert version. And you are missing the point and life's too short...

 

[RobertMG]

I'm not talking about the Colbert version. And you are missing the point and life's too short...

Agreed!!! I was not making it personnel to you -- NOT one person is bad on this place! By the way never saw the remake - is it worthwhile?

 

[roxy1927]

Imitation Of Life is worse than SOTS in many respects Colbert gets very wealthy off of her domestic thank you for your thoughts too!

Doesn't the same thing happen in Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House? Louise Beavers comes up with the slogan that the advertising exec has been desperately looking for? Maybe I'm thinking of another movie. But whoever should get an exec position in advertising with her experience as a domestic.

 

[RobertMG]

Doesn't the same thing happen in Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House? Louise Beavers comes up with the slogan that the advertising exec has been desperately looking for? Maybe I'm thinking of another movie. But whoever should get an exec position in advertising with her experience as a domestic.

She gets a ten dollar raise after saving Blandings bacon ooooops Wham!

 

[mskaye]

Agreed!!! I was not making it personnel to you -- NOT one person is bad on this place! By the way never saw the remake - is it worthwhile?

It's great. This is a profound meditation on postwar America, race, relations, dawn of the air of narcissism masquerading as a 10 handkerchief soap opera melodrama. It's also displays Sirk's visual gifts at their best. It would make a great double feature with Spike Lee's DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

[Mysto]

As I watch and read all of this - I agree... Disney will not release SotS. I think it is wrong but that doesn't change anything.

If I go back to the original source material Uncle Remus from 1880 I find that President Teddy Roosevelt was also wrong when he said, "Presidents may come and Presidents may go, but Uncle Remus stays put. Georgia has done a great many things for the Union, but she has never done more than when she gave Mr. Joel Chandler Harris to American literature."

But the original author Joel Chandler Harris was prophetic when he said he wrote the stories to "preserve in permanent shape those curious mementoes of a period that will no doubt be sadly misrepresented by historians of the future."

 

[Robert Crawford]

As I watch and read all of this - I agree... Disney will not release SotS. I think it is wrong but that doesn't change anything.

IMO, both points are not really up for debate on this particular forum. I think most of us think Disney will never release Song of the South on Blu-ray and we believe that's wrong because most of us fundamentally believe everything should be released if it's possible to do so. Again, I said "most of us", as there will always be some exceptions in POVs and opinions.

 

[roxy1927]

I believe Tokyo will be keeping their Splash Mountain. When Iger said they had to get rid of it they were like 'That's not happening.'

 

[JoshZ]

I think most of us think Disney will never release Song of the South on Blu-ray and we believe that's wrong because most of us fundamentally believe everything should be released if it's possible to do so.

This is an entirely fair statement and I agree with it. I don't think the film should be banned. I would not be angered if it were released. However, any potential release certainly must be preceded by a prominent disclaimer, and preferably a Leonard Maltin-style video introduction explaining that the film contains problematic elements.

What I do not find productive are those people arguing that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the film, that it's perfectly harmless and innocent and doesn't at all contain offensive racial stereotypes. Because it manifestly does, and someone sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending otherwise isn't going to change that.

The movie was a product of its time, and those times were super racist. Perhaps by the standard of the day, it was less racist than most screen depictions of Black characters. Perhaps it was even progressive for the time, in that the Black characters were treated with some affection, and weren't vile monstrous savages or complete half-wits, as was usually how they were portrayed.

Nevertheless, the world has moved on, and the stereotypes of the "happy slave" or the "shufflin' Negro" are not acceptable now. We don't live in 1946 anymore. By and large, that's a good thing in most respects.

I'm sure that as soon as I submit this, it will be met with a bunch of "Dislike" reacts. Before anyone goes and hits that button, I'd ask that you stop for a second and ask yourself exactly what it is that you're disagreeing with.

 

[roxy1927]

What's truly terrible about this is James Baskett gives one of the two best performances in a Disney movie. The other being Andrews in Poppins. A horrible injustice to this man which is inexcusable. I'm not getting most of you but I will leave it there.

 

[RobertMG]

This is an entirely fair statement and I agree with it. I don't think the film should be banned. I would not be angered if it were released. However, any potential release certainly must be preceded by a prominent disclaimer, and preferably a Leonard Maltin-style video introduction explaining that the film contains problematic elements.

What I do not find productive are those people arguing that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the film, that it's perfectly harmless and innocent and doesn't at all contain offensive racial stereotypes. Because it manifestly does, and someone sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending otherwise isn't going to change that.

The movie was a product of its time, and those times were super racist. Perhaps by the standard of the day, it was less racist than most screen depictions of Black characters. Perhaps it was even progressive for the time, in that the Black characters were treated with some affection, and weren't vile monstrous savages or complete half-wits, as was usually how they were portrayed.

Nevertheless, the world has moved on, and the stereotypes of the "happy slave" or the "shufflin' Negro" are not acceptable now. We don't live in 1946 anymore. By and large, that's a good thing in most respects.

I'm sure that as soon as I submit this, it will be met with a bunch of "Dislike" reacts. Before anyone goes and hits that button, I'd ask that you stop for a second and ask yourself exactly what it is that you're disagreeing with.

This is an entirely fair statement and I agree with it. I don't think the film should be banned. I would not be angered if it were released. However, any potential release certainly must be preceded by a prominent disclaimer, and preferably a Leonard Maltin-style video introduction explaining that the film contains problematic elements.

What I do not find productive are those people arguing that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the film, that it's perfectly harmless and innocent and doesn't at all contain offensive racial stereotypes. Because it manifestly does, and someone sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending otherwise isn't going to change that.

The movie was a product of its time, and those times were super racist. Perhaps by the standard of the day, it was less racist than most screen depictions of Black characters. Perhaps it was even progressive for the time, in that the Black characters were treated with some affection, and weren't vile monstrous savages or complete half-wits, as was usually how they were portrayed.

Nevertheless, the world has moved on, and the stereotypes of the "happy slave" or the "shufflin' Negro" are not acceptable now. We don't live in 1946 anymore. By and large, that's a good thing in most respects.

I'm sure that as soon as I submit this, it will be met with a bunch of "Dislike" reacts. Before anyone goes and hits that button, I'd ask that you stop for a second and ask yourself exactly what it is that you're disagreeing with.

I will not call them super racist times - if we banned films that depicted negative depictions of Italians Irish Asians our Jewish brethren etc a lot of films would be banned - right up to The Godfather - people simply laughed at depictions that had been around for centuries - you have been beacons of honesty in your views USA has nothing though to apologize for we continue to strive to be better and grow DOUBT she is on here but props to Whoopi for wanting the film out and wanting to start a discussion GOOD on her! And good on everyone not calling for the film to be banned -