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Song of the South (1 Viewer)

Julian Lalor

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This film is regularly shown on The Disney Channel in international territories, without fuss or fanfare. Yes, it has some problematic portrayels of African-Americans, but so does Gone With the Wind. Why not release the film on DVD and include a documentary on the DVD explaining the problems. The film, like all films, is a product of its time; that is no reason to effectively remove it from circulation.
 

Dan Rudolph

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I coudl see how the character models for several characters could problematic. They look like black-faced minstrels. But still, I think Disney could get away with making this a Treasures release.
 

ToddL

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Sorry if someone has pointed this out before but I read somewhere about the following site where you can vote to have SOS released on DVD. The link is on the left side of the page.
Go here to vote.
Of course be sure to vote for DVD. ;)
 

Rex Bachmann

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Paul Penna wrote (post #57):


Quote:



Similarly, the other stereotypes seen (or rather, no longer seen) in cartoons of the period, like watermelon-eating and shooting dice. Would most people today even know they were stereotypes unless someone told them?





I think it very much depends on which people were doing the viewing and which were queried about what they saw.

One of things mentioned in the article linked above (post #49), "Who Framed Brer Rabbit? The truth about Disney’s classic & controversial Song of the South", is that the "Disney version" of the source material left out the subtext of racial rebelliousness (as well much of the violence, naturally, against animal characters that may have represented white overlords, whether in slavery or post-slavery times) inherent in the tales, thus leaving the Uncle Remus character, which was created by the white recorder of the tales, a submissive-seeming "Uncle Tom"-like figure. (And, by the way, the name Remus is just the kind of name that might have been given to a black slave, since masters favored Greek and, especially, Roman names. (Ever heard of "Cassius Clay"?) So, even if the black storyteller is narrating the story in the postbellum South, his name recalls the slavery era and, for all we know, at his age he may have been born into slavery. How old is Uncle Remus supposed to be in the source material? Anybody know?)

Anyway, the character's Disney depiction runs wholely against the current of the concept of bad---I must say this carefully, lest it be misunderstood and wrongly used out of context---that is featured in so much of the "youth"-oriented "pop culture" of the last 30 to 35 years. (Singer: "That Shaft, he's a bad mothuh---" //chorus: "Shut yo' mouth!" //Singer: "I'm jus' talkin' 'bout Shaft." In a what is essentially a praise song, the hero is "bad".) People nowadays think that "bad" means 'good', but it doesn't. It's almost surely abstracted from the (by now obsolete???) expression to break bad, which means (or meant, in the good old days, anyway) 'to be defiant, rebellious; not to follow orders, etc.' That's now become a culturally expected tenet among youth (black, white, and other, as well). (It's called "having attitude".) The animal characters in the Chandler collection, and in the black American and predecessor African folktales on which his collection is based, "have attitude". Presumably, in the Disney version they do not (or, at least, not enough for some people's taste). That would probably be due to typical "Disneyization" of the source material. (The desire to "have attitude" or see others do so is, of course, not at all restricted to youth.)

One thing the article does seem to gloss over is the reception of the dialect in which the stories are conveyed. Although some have tried to claim a point of "pride" by sticking to what they see as "native" dialects in everyday use and formal settings (note most prominently the "Ebonics" controversies), many blacks feel that the dialects presented in this film and many another in which black characters have been featured at all in benighted pre-60's Hollywood cast blacks (especially black Americans) as a whole as, not just uneducated, but unintelligent as well. And while some of you may think this is trivial, you need direct yourselves no further than to our own HTF "After Hours" section, to some of the threads there on language and "proper English", in order to view for yourselves some of the denunciations of anyone who doesn't use the approved forms---sounds and/or words---of speech. A careful reading should convey a good impression of what blacks who do not approve of Song of the South may have to fear as to the social (and political) implications for themselves from the dissemination of such images. (A discussion on "good English", dialect variation, and their social reception is to be referenced in the thread "If I 'would have'. . .", especially from post #7 on.)
 

george kaplan

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I think I'll tread carefully and just point out that the Ali reference is pretty spurious, unless you're saying he was given that name, not by his parents, but by his white owners (and I'm pretty damned sure that he was NOT born into slavery).
 

Dick

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One day we are all going to click on "Home Theater Software" and there will be an announcement of the DVD release of SONG OF THE SOUTH, either as a stand-alone feature or as part of the TREASURES series or some other collection. I just can't believe Disney is going to allow this film to languish in limbo forever- there are just too many MILLIONS (yes, MILLIONS) of fans with fond memories who would purchase this in the U.S. for a company with frequent financial problems to ignore. It will come down to money, I suspect.
 

Rex Bachmann

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george kaplan wrote (post #66):
The Ali reference is totally to the point in that it indicates just the kind of first name that a black slave in the antebellum South might well have been expected to receive. That is in good measure why it was rejected, parent-given or not.
 

Eric Emma

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I just saw Song of the South and I must say it not as racist as it is sterio-typcial and insensitive. Though if you veiw the film itself it's an artistic masterpiece...
 

Rex Bachmann

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Tomoko Noguchi wrote (post #69):

And he became a Muslim, like so many American blacks at the time, exactly in order to "throw off the yoke of the oppressor", as they used to say, which included both the religion (Christianity) and the so-called "slave names".

The conversion was, in those days (maybe still?), at least as much a socio-political act as a religious one. The two were intimately bound together. New religion, new name; neither imposed by Europeans. That's the point!
 

Robert Crawford

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Okay, let's not go any further with this socio-political and religion discussion. Some of you made your point, move on, please.

Crawdaddy
 

Eric Emma

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Well I must say they did an excellent job with putting animation and live action in the same shot.
 

Robert Harris

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Thank you, Eric.

The combination of three-strip Technicolor cinematography and SE Technicolor animation was brilliantly conceived and layered.

If I'm recalling my history correctly, to accomplish the task the three-strip material was duped to conform with the sequential; quite a task for what was essentially a war-time, post-war production.

The technical abilities evidenced here by the Disney studio should not be underestimated in today's digital world.
 

Eric Emma

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Did they film the live-action b4 or after they did the animated sequences? Cuz I was amazed at some of the little details uncle remus did. Like actually look at birds, put his hands on an animated fence.
 

Brian Kidd

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Leonard Maltin has a great editorial on his website about racial stereotypes in film and how they should be viewed as products of their time instead of repressed. It deals mostly with the Charlie Chan films and Fox Movies' recent decision to yank them from their schedule, but I think it applies to SONG OF THE SOUTH. Maybe Maltin will be the savior of this film if he can convince Disney to release it.
leonardmaltin.com
 

Walter Kittel

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Leonard Maltin has a great editorial on his website about racial stereotypes in film and how they should be viewed as products of their time instead of repressed.
At the risk of repeating myself concerning the special circumstances surrounding this family title...

As an adult viewer, I can make that distinction, but it is entirely unreasonable to assume that children are going to mentally make those same sorts of allowances. Films being viewed by adults are one thing, films being viewed by children are another.

- Walter.
 

Malcolm R

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People often underestimate children. I think they're a lot less apt to take it seriously than most adults who know better.
 

Eric Emma

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This debate has been done over and over again and now let discuss the actual film
 

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