Song of the South (1 Viewer)

[Ruz-El]

sadly singing black people in a field=happy slaves regardless of context apparently. I've come to accept that this film will never be released in an official format in my lifetime. I don't like it, but if it really is upsetting to a significant group of people, I can live with it. It's just a shame that a film that is iconic on many levels can't be screened.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

I have my legal laserdisc of SOTS released by Disney in Japan when laserdiscs were in fashion. It looks really nice but it has Japanese subtitles that cannot be turned off. Still well worth having.

I have the legit Japanese laserdisc, too. I even made a backup copy on DVD-R. But if you are really hard-up to see it, check YouTube. Unfortunately, the sound is slightly out-of-sync and there is some watermarking on an otherwise nice picture.

 

[Matt Hough]

Yes, I believe the blacks are sharecroppers. At any rate, they're kindly and compassionate about the children and the boy's mother who's having marital difficulties. The animation is some of the richest and most beautiful ever turned out by the Disney animators, and it is a crime it hasn't been allowed to be seen officially for so many years.

 

[Michael Elliott]

Are there any black members of this thread who can share their thoughts on the controversy?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
Are there any black members of this thread who can share their thoughts on the controversy?

I wish they would release this title along with an educational segment regarding the making of certain films in which racism was exhibited in those films. We need to continue to discuss racism as it is still a problem in our society despite the gains over the last 50-60 years. I think a release of this film along with some other titles held up for the same reason can be used in today's society to educate our young people about our past society and film history so we can all have a better future. However, I can also understand why others would feel differently and would prefer this film is never shown again. I always remembered what my grandfather told me a long time ago, just because you weren't offended, it doesn't mean an offensive act didn't take place. And that reprimmand came about over the use of word "black" instead of "colored" in describing an individual during a family discussion back in the 1960s.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I wish they would release this title along with an educational segment regarding the making of certain films in which racism was exhibited in those films.  We need to continue to discuss racism as it is still a problem in our society despite the gains over the last 50-60 years.  I think a release of this film along with some other titles held up for the same reason can be used in today's society to educate our young people about our past society and film history so we can all have a better future.  However, I can also understand why others would feel differently and would prefer this film is never shown again.  I always remembered what my grandfather told me a long time ago, just because you weren't offended, it doesn't mean an offensive act didn't take place.  And that reprimmand came about over the use of word "black" instead of "colored" in describing an individual during a family discussion back in the 1960s.

The bolded area is why I asked if there were any black members on the forum who had an opinion about this film. White people can sit around and discuss how "un-racist" this movie is but I'd prefer to hear the opinion of someone who might be offended by it. The issue itself might not be a race one but more a political debate that certain groups would want attention by using the "R" word. If this film was to be released for an educational reason, you can say that the NAACP would just be hurting things by trying to cover up the past instead of admit it happened, look at it and have a civil discussion about it. In the movie section there was a thread about someone watching a movie on TCM and there was a line that pretty much used "I'm white" to say they were the better race. This type of line (or I'm white and free to do what I want) is something that you see throughout many of these early films from the 30s and especially the pre-code era. I've often said Loretta Young is my favorite actress and I've watched three different films of hers this year and each of them had her address as being "white" in reference to her being powerful and free to do what she wants. I started thinking about a few other films that I've seen of hers and sure enough, this appears to be something that was said of her quite often. Now some of these movies have been released without any discussion, without any hype and you'd think that many would be offended by these words more than images from certain films that remain banned. What I really don't understand is that TCM did a month of race films not too long ago and yet only a select few came up with a "warning" before they aired. I'm not sure who picks the warnings or why certain films get them over others. In all cases, you have to wonder who would want to be educated with these films. It seems most in this thread and those throughout the internet are tired of the political message and would just skip them. Those who are offended by this material are going to hate it no matter what Maltin says about them or the time. I just don't see a win for Disney here except for the fans finally being able to own a legal copy and the sales probably won't make up for the protest or negative talk. My grandfather was part Indian yet he was the one who introduced me to Westerns and especially those with John Wayne. What you said about what your grandfather told you about who might be offended comes close to what he told me when I asked if certain images bothered him. He never really used these images to teach me about how things were in films as he pretty much took them as that's the way things were.

 

[ahollis]

Some where in this thread there is a post from someone that claimed to be African-American and his thoughts are cautious. Not sure what the post number is but look over this thread and you will find it. A lot of people, both black and white tend to think that the film is based in the slavery era but it is set after the Civil War.

 

[TravisR]

In all cases, you have to wonder who would want to be educated with these films. It seems most in this thread and those throughout the internet are tired of the political message and would just skip them. Those who are offended by this material are going to hate it no matter what Maltin says about them or the time.

Honestly, I hate those messages because while I'm sure they're well-intentioned, I find them to be sort of insulting. As if part of what they're saying is "Hey black people, Whoopi Goldberg says it's OK so you don't have to be mad". If a person (whatever their race) watches the movie and is offended by what they see, their feelings are just as valid as anyone who is not offended by it. A celebrity or historian's thoughts on the matter shouldn't be used to try to 'override' anyone else's views.

 

[ScottHM]

Originally Posted by Russell G
I've come to accept that this film will never be released in an official format in my lifetime. I don't like it, but if it really is upsetting to a significant group of people, I can live with it.

If they'd release one Blu-ray of this film for every movie released that would offend me we could all have several copies.
---------------

 

[Michael Elliott]

Honestly, I hate those messages because while I'm sure they're well-intentioned, I find them to be sort of insulting. As if part of what they're saying is "Hey black people, Whoopi Goldberg says it's OK so you don't have to be mad". If a person (whatever their race) watches the movie and is offended by what they see, their feelings are just as valid as anyone who is not offended by it. A celebrity or historian's thoughts on the matter shouldn't be used to try to 'override' anyone else's views.

Oh, I certainly agree with you. I think most movies might have something that offends someone so it's impossible to make everyone happy or keep them safe. Plus I wonder if this movie has been hidden so long that you could release it and not too many people take notice. I'm sure the NAACP would make a fight about it but if they had a bigger fish to fry then perhaps this here could sneak out. Still, it would have to be something "big" going on and of course then the studio could just resort to saying it's not the right time (to be respectful). Insulting is a good word and I'd probably say they are just preaching to the dumb. If they want to teach the history of cinema then that's fine. If they try to apologize or sugar coat something it's just not needed as there's no point in lying about the issue or trying to make it look better than it was. As you know, I've been spending the month going through countless Blaxploitation movies and these here usually have fun with revenge, murder, rape and other forms of violence. No one takes this serious as they were just a product of their time and God knows it's doubtful these types of films would be made today. There's still no protest over them. Again, I haven't watched this film yet (own it but waited for an official release) but I can't imagine its any worse than stuff that shows daily on TCM or other stations.

 

[Ruz-El]

I agree completely with you about the Blaxsploitation angle. I think what is causing the problem with Song is the the one-two punch of "happy slaves" in the live action and a bit of "Amos and Andy" in the cartoon bits. Lord knows the Blaxploitation films have their own stereotype of pimps and what not, but it's under the thin guise of empowerment. Which somehow makes it more acceptable. There's not really any empowerment in Song of the South other then Uncle Remus being the only decent human being in the film. Which is probably another issue with white folk sadly.... It's all a can of bees waiting to be opened. IT's sucks since it's pretty great, and stupid since you can see a bunch of bits of it on other DVDs put out by Disney.

 

[Robert Crawford]

If Song of the South was a film aimed at an adult audience then it would be out on some kind of video format. People don't want to have to explain stuff to their kids and that's the main problem. Crawdaddy

 

[Virgoan]

I wonder how adults explain Mammy and Prissy and Pork and Big Sam in "Gone With the Wind". Granted, the film is not kiddie fare, but at some point in their lives, the kids are going to see it. How do they explain the jive talk/singing of the "When I See An Elephant Fly" number by the crows in "Dumbo"?

 

[Mark Collins]

The elements are very well cared for.  Interesting production, as I recall, the final negatives are three-strip, combined from a combination of live photography three-strip and animated SE. A magnificent film, photographed by Gregg Toland, in Technicolor.  He did a few other interesting films.  And yes, my all-time favorite Disney production. I don't know what all the fuss is about, not releasing in the U.S.  I find nothing racially problematic with it.  Unless one hones in on white children being ignored by their parents, and finding love and protection from slaves.  Yes, there was slavery.  It was a horrible situation.  Might the fact that the slaves in SotS are pictured as happy be the problem? Can't answer that one.  But as a film, Song of the South is a magnificent achievement, and great entertainment. RAH

My DVD from Disneyland Paris looks great on the up convert. Yes and the fuss should more be made over the Dumbo number.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Originally Posted by Virgoan
I wonder how adults explain Mammy and Prissy and Pork and Big Sam in "Gone With the Wind". Granted, the film is not kiddie fare, but at some point in their lives, the kids are going to see it.
How do they explain the jive talk/singing of the "When I See An Elephant Fly" number by the crows in "Dumbo"?

I doubt very many kids of today that will sit around and watch Gone With the Wind.
As to Dumbo, who knows?????? For some reason, Song of the South has a racial perception attached to it whether we like or not.

 

[bob kaplan]

Well, tis good to know that the film is being cared for....i have the LaserDisc too, and transfered it to a DVD-r. Subtitles are a bit annoying, and i think campared to even a studio released DVD, the colors,blacks, noise level...etc....can't compare. A blu-ray would certainly show the care, effort and work that really went into the project.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by Virgoan
How do they explain the jive talk/singing of the "When I See An Elephant Fly" number by the crows in "Dumbo"?

From my experience showing Dumbo to my 7 year old Nephew, the childs response was "Those crows are funny" to which I added "yup, they are!"
that was it.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I showed my son DUMBO a few weeks back and even though he's only three, he thought the crows were very funny. While watching it it never really dawned on me that I should even try to explain anything to him. He's also watched some of those Jungle Jim movies with me and these contained a lot more offensive things.

 

[MatthewA]

According to the featurette on the Blu-ray of Dumbo, the crows were based on specific performers. When I first saw that film as a child, I didn't think of them as being anything like black people because they didn't look like any of the other actual blacks (i.e. human beings) I had come into contact with or seen on TV (The Cosby Show, 227, Amen and Webster were huge network hits around that time, while Punky Brewster had a black best friend [Cherie Johnson, who was actually half-Puerto Rican] and they never brought up her race because it just didn't matter to them). It wasn't until I was a teen and I read an article calling these crows "racist" that the idea ever came into my mind. I also read another article claiming Mickey Mouse was a blackface minstrel!
But back to SOTS, consider the fact that Walt Disney considered Abraham Lincoln one of his personal heroes (I went to Disneyland last weekend and found the greatest inspiration from Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln) and that Joel Chandler Harris, a supporter of Reconstruction, lived and worked among slaves to write the original Uncle Remus stories.
And I don't think you can equivocate this to Gone With the Wind (my Virginia-born-and-raised mother's favorite film, and she doesn't have a prejudiced bone in her body); the book was unambiguously pro-Confederate and had a very paternalistic view of blacks, while the movie made it more ambiguous. The "political meeting" that cost Frank Kennedy his life was a KKK meeting in the book, while the film's opening text made it clear, "Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered. A Civilization gone with the wind" as a reminder that the old way of life, which very few people benefited from directly in the first place, was never coming back. Coincidentially, Hattie McDaniel is in both films; Mo'nique has been trying to get a film made about her life.
There's a book out now called "Who's Afraid of Song of the South?" by Jim Korkis, but the best defense of the film as a piece of filmmaking I have read so far has come from Tim Hauser, a story artist and the former editor of Save Disney, who is often found on Disney fan sites as "merlinjones":
http://web.archive.org/web/20050308033724/http://www.savedisney.com/news/editorials/mj012105.1.asp
I get why some people may be offended by this film, but as a gay Southern Jew who's been called every slur in the book by blacks and whites alike, I'm more offended by The Toy or the many episodes of Seth MacFarlane's shows that display outright contempt for white Southerners, while Seth continues to push the "Walt was an anti-semite" lie, which would have come as a surprise to the Sherman Brothers or Ed Wynn (the late Robert Sherman's upcoming autobiography, Moose, will cover this in detail) and especially to Ron and Diane Miller. And it's all because Disney turned him down. I even saw Triumph of the Will as a teenager, and no amount of inventive camera angles can cover up for the fact that it is an infomercial for genocide. Nor will I suffer anti-gay fools gladly on stage, screen, television or real life. But I will fight any official attempts to suppress these films tooth and nail.
But what if Disney actually does release it? In addition to stuff specific to the film, Disney could frame the extras around how their films reflected the changing views of race in society. Consider how common blackface gags were in the 1930s cartoons versus those made after the war (don't get me started on Fantasia again), when they practically disappeared. Then consider the gradual increase of blacks in the studio's films over the years, including Bedknobs and Broomsticks (the film's choreographer, Donald McKayle, was black, and Mr. Browne briefly dances with a black Caribbean dancer while he looks for Miss Price at the end of the Portobello Road dance), the 1972 version of The Biscuit Eater, 1976's Treasure of Matecumbe (a mediocre film overall, but it is about a white boy and a black boy running away to a Riverboat sometime after the Civil War, and there is a scene acknowledging the KKK), TV musicals such as Polly (which I look at as basically "The Cosby Show Musical," as it had Keshia Knight Pulliam and Phylicia Rashad) the Brandy/Whitney Houston Cinderella, and some of the 2000s Disney Channel shows (The Proud Family and That's So Raven come to mind). And of course, there's The Princess and the Frog. Somehow I doubt this one film will undo all that. They could also address the changing views of American Indians in the 42 years between Peter Pan and Pocahontas, or Asians prior to Mulan, or the controversy over Aladdin's song lyrics. I even remember complaints about Whoopi Goldberg being a hyena in The Lion King, ignoring that James Earl Jones voiced Mufasa.
Bottom line: you can't please everyone. I also think it's futile to keep playing this "which film is more offensive" game when keeping it off the market has backfired (I've heard rumors that some of the Eisner-installed board members are the ones keeping it locked up). I am just numb to it all, and I'm getting tired of their excuses. I'm more concerned with having a means to pay for the discs they do release. Disney needs to own up to it, embrace it, restore it, release it and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[ahollis]

Excellent post Matthew. Very thoughtful and thought provoking. Thanks