some settings for my Harmon receiver......

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by Dustin Wind, Sep 4, 2003.

  1. Dustin Wind

    Dustin Wind Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all,
    I have:
    Harman 325
    JBL N38 Tower speakers
    JBL N 26's and the satalite 24's.
    Velodyne 10" sub


    1. Do i set my sub to "SUB (LFE)" or "SUB LFE + L/R" on my receiver?
    Which will sound better?
    I have also been told to set all my speakers to "small" even though my tower speakers are pretty big.

    2. What do i set my X-over to on my speakers and sub?
    Someone told me to set them ALL to 80 HZ. All my speakers are diffrent sizes...not sure if that matters....so i still set them all to 80HZ?
    What do i set my Velodyne sub to? 80hz also?

    3. I have a choice of "global" or "individial" for my sub...i only want my system for movies....so i'm safe to assume i set it to "global"?

    Thanks everyone in advance.
     
  2. Dustin Wind

    Dustin Wind Stunt Coordinator

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    Someone told me to set the speakers to 60HZ, so i set all 5 speakers to 60 HZ.
    They also told me to set the sub as hight as it will go, so i put it to 200HZ.

    Any thoughts or opinions?


    also from my last question....."SUB (LFE)" or "SUB LFE + L/R" on my receiver

    I set the speakers to SMALL so i cannot choose the above...i can only choose it if i set the speakers to LARGE.
     
  3. Jay Blanchard

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    I have this question as well.

    I have the HK 525 and a couple S310's as fronts with an SVS 25-31pci sub.

    It seems like such a waste to have the fronts set as small when they're probably very capable of handling some of the lower frequencies. Similarly, I don't know if setting Sub LFE + L/R to on will do anything wierd to the sound. I'd really like for there to be a formulaic answer to this question, but it's probably a "listen for yourself, see if you like it" kind of situation.

    I'll be watching this thread...
     
  4. Dustin Wind

    Dustin Wind Stunt Coordinator

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    So 60HZ instead of 80HZ and also my sub at 200HZ?

    Anyone

    Thanks in advance guys.
     
  5. brentl

    brentl Cinematographer

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    Set your mains at 80hz, that should be good. Set your subwoofer to maximum on the crossover, and use the one built in to the receiver to control the bass frequency.

    Do you have a crossover adjustment(other than volume) on the receiver?? If so I'd say set it around 60hz. Try a little higher, but you amy start getting male vocals comin through your sub.

    Brent
     
  6. Dustin Wind

    Dustin Wind Stunt Coordinator

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    So set my speakers at 80HZ and not 60HZ?

    Also the sub setting is on my receiver....200HZ. So i should keep it at 200HZ?....your saying put the sub to 60HZ?
    Yikes now i'm confused on what to do lol.

    Someone told me NOT to use the x-over on the back of the sub.
    Just use the volume control and turn the x-over on the sub to off so its not being used.
     
  7. Jay Blanchard

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    The setup doc of my SVS clearly states that the crossover on the Sub should be disabled (which is likely 200Hz on your sub, if there's not a switch removing it altogether) when you have a Receiver that will be peforming Bass Management. By turning the Sub on in the receiver, you're enabling the receivers crossover for that channel. 200Hz is way too high for your Sub I believe. You want your Sub to concentrate on the lower Hz, so I think a setting of about 60Hz is probably correct.

    What I'm still not clear on, is what the receiver does with bass when you set your mains as Large and set LFE Sub + L/R.

    I don't know whether it would be ideal for the fronts to take care of the somewhat low bass, and leave the Sub to the really low bass, or if bass frequency overlap between the mains and the sub is desired (and even possible, though I think I've read that it is).
     
  8. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    If your sub has a variable crossover, open it wide up - as in the knob on the sub itself.

    If your sub has an "LFE" input, use that. It will skip the crossover circuitry in the sub.

    When selecting your bass crossover levels, keep in mind that you are also letting the receiver's amps work without bass, which should allow for more headroom and better dynamics.

    Lok at the specs for low frequency rolloff on all of your speakers. If the speakers roll off at, say, 60 Hz, set the crossover above that, like 80. Global at 80 means everything is crossed at 80, whereas individual lets you spec different cutoffs for different sets of speakers, depending on their rollof point. Bokshelves may be best at 80 or 100, when towers would be OK with 40 or 60. But 40hz really is pretty low, and to play loud it would be best to free up the towers from that load and let the sub do it.

    LFE + LR usually means you are running the mains large and the sub gets LFE and whatever bass is recorded in the L/R, resulting in some duplication of effort. Measure to see the effect, but I wouldn't use it. My preference.



    Always experiment to see what's best. Measure if you can, so you can see what you are hearing.
     
  9. Dustin Wind

    Dustin Wind Stunt Coordinator

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    Ya, my sub x-over is turned off on the back of my sub.

    I'm just using my Harmon 325 for all the settings.

    So all 5 speakers at 80HZ and my Velodyne sub at 60HZ....


    Why did someone tell me to set it at 200HZ, thats a pretty big diffrence from 60HZ, doh!
     
  10. Jay Blanchard

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    Wouldn't setting your crossover at 80Hz for the mains/surrounds and setting the Sub crossover (in receiver, not on Sub) at 60Hz result in a gap between 60 and 80Hz?
     
  11. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    If a SUB comes with a crossover on-off switch, then off is selected. Some subs do not offer this, so the advice is to turn the sub x-over dial as high as it goes, 140Hz or 200 Hz whatever. This merely helps neutralize the sub circuitry. It ensures the sub circuit is out of the way, switch or no.

    After all, all bass below 80Hz will be shifted from the speakers to the sub by the receiver's bass management circuits. The sub doesnt really benefit from bass signals above 80Hz-100Hz, so they're not missed or wasted in the sub.
     
  12. Steve_AS

    Steve_AS Second Unit

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    Could it be that someone either doesn't own the owner's manual, or isn't reading it?

    The AVR325 comes with an insert detailing the use of the 'triple crossover', which allow bass management crossovers to be set independently for front, center, and surround speakers, allows owners to 'mix and match' brands and speakers specs.

    The document can be downloaded here:

    http://manuals.harman.com/HK/Owner%2...%20(FINAL).pdf


    and further illustrated here:

    http://manuals.harman.com/HK/Technol...verTechSht.pdf

    As for the SUB, NONE, SUB(LFE) and SUB LFE+L/R options, they are explained in the AVR325 owner's manual, whihc is available from

    http://manuals.harman.com/HK/Owner%2...OM%20FINAL.pdf

    specifically, page 22.

    Here's my own take:
    In stereo music, what I'll call 'normal' bass information is usually mixed in as part of both channels. When surround music or movies are mixed in the studio, bass information can exist as a normal part of the main/center/surround channels, and/or in the dedicated subwoofer (.1) channel (the 'Low Frequency Effects' or LFE channel of Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 mixes). For example, extra-bassy special effects like dinosaur footsteps are sometimes mixed directly and only to the .1 channel. If you are playing surround mixes, there has to be some way to play back this .1 channel information. If you don't have a subwoofer, it has to be rerouted to other speakers (whcih presumably can handle low bass), otherwise it's lost.

    The normal bass that is mixed in with other channels can either by output from the speaker channels they were originally mixed to, or can be routed to the subwoofer or other large speaker. For any small speaker, bass in that channel should be routed *away* from it into other speakers that can handle bass. There has to be some place for this bass to go, otherwise it's lost if you set the speakers to SMALL. In most home theater systems, the 'normal' bass from small speakers is directed to the subwoofer, along with any LFE bass that was going to go to the subwoofer anyway. If you have large front speakers, you have other options for managing bass.

    In your system, you have almost 'full-range' speakers as left and right front, the rest are small, and a subwoofer. So the question becemes, how to divide the bass up between the front L/R and the subwoofer

    Your options for any set of speakers except the sub, are LARGE or SMALL. Your options for the sub are SUB, NONE, SUB(LFE) or SUB(LFE + L/R)

    I assume your center and surrounds are set to SMALL; this means that any 'normal' bass in these channels will be rerouted to the subwoofer. So your remaining options concern fronts and sub.

    If you set fronts to SMALL: this automatically sets subwoofer to SUB, meaning ALL bass from ALL speakers goes ONLY to the sub. No bass output from other speakers.

    If you set the fronts to LARGE this you have three options for choosing what comes out of the sub (SUB is no longer an option):

    NONE: ALL normal L/R bass, PLUS normal bass from ALL small speakers, PLUS LFE bass, is routed to the front left and right. No sub output, no bass output from small speakers.

    SUB(LFE): the sub outputs ONLY LFE bass; 'normal' front bass (but not LFE) is routed to the front L/R speakers.

    SUB(LFE+L/R): the sub outputs LFE bass PLUS 'normal' front bass, and the front L/R ALSO outputs the 'normal' front bass (but not the LFE bass).

    The only thing I'm not sure of is what happens to the SMALL center/surround 'normal' bass info, when fronts are LARGE and sub is set to LFE or LFE+L/R. Does it go to the sub, or to the front speakers or to both? I have an AVR520 and could test this at home. It's not an issue for me since I have small speakers all around and have fronts set to SMALL. Personally, I would set fronts to SMALL even with large 'tower' speakers, to simplify matters.

    As regards crossover settings: What constitutes 'normal' bass for any channel is defined by the crossover setting for that channel; anything below the setting is 'normal' bass.
     
  13. Dustin Wind

    Dustin Wind Stunt Coordinator

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    Nice post Steve.

    So from my reading on this post set all 5 speakers to 80HZ and set the sub on the receiver to either 60HZ or 80HZ....just need to see which one sounds better.
     
  14. Steve_AS

    Steve_AS Second Unit

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