Some questions regarding government (1 Viewer)

[David Baranyi]

I have some government questions that need answer. Please answer them the best as you can. Please no politics please.

a) I often hear this term when referring to government, but what does the phrase "rule of law" mean?

b) * Deleted *

c) What is a difference between a republic and a democracy? (No politics please)

 

[Denward]

a) I believe "rule of law" implies that the culture and infrastructure exists whereby no one can blatantly defy the law and expect to get away with it. For example, while North Korea has laws, I highly doubt the Kim Jong Il and his family would ever be arrested for anything. When I worked in international business, it was understood that in some countries, you could not rely on contracts to be enforced by the legal system. You had to make sure you bribed the right people just to make sure your opponent didn't get the upper hand.

b) Proposition 13 was passed in about 1977. It severely reduced property taxes throughout California. IIRC, it was widely hailed as a populist tax revolt. I think it made everyone believe that you could do astounding things with Propositions under the California constitution. I'll avoid any further political commentary.

c) Not sure on this one.

 

[Chris Lockwood]

Did Prop 13 actually reduce taxes? I thought it just kept them from going up as fast as they had been; at least that's what similar measures have done in other states. We have one that caps how much your property taxes can go up each year, but when you sell, the property gets reassessed closer to the current market value. The point of passing it was that there were many senior citizens who had been in their homes 20-30 years & were no longer able to pay the increasing taxes every year. The fact that the house value had gone way up while they owned it meant nothing to those who wanted to continue living there.

Oh, a republic is what the US is, or any other free country I can think of. It means the people vote for representatives who pass the laws. A true democracy would mean everyone voting on every issue, which would be unworkable unless the population is very small. I don't know of any modern countries that are true democracies- maybe someone else does, but I doubt there are any.

 

[Mike Voigt]

Both from Hyperdictionary:

Democracy:

[n] the doctrine that the numerical majority of an organized group can make decisions binding on the whole group
[n] the political orientation of those who favor government by the people or by their elected representatives
[n] a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them

http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/democracy

Republic:
[n] a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them
[n] a form of government whose head of state is not a monarch; "the head of state in a republic is usually a president"

http://hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Republic

Some interesting differences...

 

[Eric_L]

Chris you are right - what you described is prop 13. When it was passed it did roll back propety values a few years as well.

Prior to prop 13 not only were property taxes higher but also tax appraisers would often require you to 'invite' them into your house for an appraisal. A very blatant invasion of privacy and borderline illegal search (but since they were inspecting and not searching it was allowed) If you had the courage to say 'NO' to them they would come back with a ridiculously high appraisal. It was blackmail.

Prop 13 ended the need for that to be done. Some in CA thought it was horrible since it substantially reduced tax incomes. They called it a tax cut for the elderly since you could have two homes right next door to each other with very differnt tax bills. (A house that a young family just bought with a tax based on the current value of the house right next door to a house owned by a couple who has been there 20 years with their tax level locked in)

My opinion is that is perfectly fair. If someone wants to live in a house 20 years they should not be threatened with losing their home just because property values increased beyond their ability to pay the taxes. Not to mention tax abuse, high taxes and government waste - but that soapbox would likely end in a political shoutmatch.

 

[Kirk Gunn]

My comments on Rule of Law: Under Monarchies, which were quite popular prior to this "American Revolution thing" in the late 1700's, the King/Queen and their underlings ruled basically by whim. Their opinions were forced on the population.

Extortion and abuse in this system was rampant (as shown by the example above). In addition, these abuses were considered law, so there was no way to complain about it. This is considered the "rule of Man".

The Magna Carter of 1215 set the stage to limit the Rule of Man by allowing the state-sponsored church the freedom to run itself with little interference from the Monarchy. While it did not help the commoners much, it was a victory for the principle that a Monarcy does not wield supreme power. (watch Monte Python's Holy Grail for a good explanation of the ludicrous foundation of some monarchies - it's also in someone's forum sig - quite funny)

A few hundred years later, along comes the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution which clearly state the US Government must be formed from an elected body. Their are also limits on government power outlined in the Bill or Rights. The Constitution is considered "The Law", and hence the "Rule of Law" that the "Rule of Man" can never usurp(supposedly).

 

[Nathan*W]

In a democracy, majority rules via a direct election.

In a representative republic (like the U.S.), people are elected who are supposed to to abide the will of those they represent, but can also dissagree and vote on their own. Majority frequently doesn't rule, and there is no national direct election.

 

[JamesHl]

representative republic

I think you're looking for either representative democracy or democratic republic.

"A widely-assumed meaning of the "rule of law" is that of peaceful resolution of disputes within the citizenry based on law rather than force." http://faculty.virginia.edu/jnmoore/rol/

That seems to sum up rule of law pretty well.

 

[Nathan*W]

I think you're looking for either representative democracy or democratic republic.

I said what I meant, and I meant what I said.

 

[JamesHl]

That seems redundant. What is a republic if not representative?

 

[Patrick_S]

Regarding California Proposition 13, what other have said about it is correct.

Some in CA thought it was horrible since it substantially reduced tax incomes. They called it a tax cut for the elderly since you could have two homes right next door to each other with very differnt tax bills.

Actually there were a lot of middle age home owners who also benefited from 13 also since you didn't need to won your home decades to get a tax reduction. You simply needed to won the home just a few years before 1977.

As for the concept that houses right next to each other having very different tax bills; the reality is that with each passing year the number of private citizens who benefit from a drastically reduce tax rate becomes smaller and smaller because of home sales or death.

The only fault I have with prop 13 is that it should have only applied to single-family homes. It should not have covered apartment buildings or commercial properties.

 

[Cees Alons]

... Monarchies, which were quite popular prior to this "American Revolution thing" in the late 1700's..

Probably never heard of something called "the French Revolution"?


Cees

 

[Chris Lockwood]

> It should not have covered apartment buildings or commercial properties.

Does it really cover those? I think our version only includes your homestead, which is defined as your primary residence. If you live in an apartment in a building you own, you could probably declare the apartment as your homestead, but not the other units. Ditto for a duplex.

I know for sure ours doesn't cover income property that you own to rent to others.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

Probably never heard of something called "the French Revolution"?

We beat the French by a decade or thereabouts. We declared independence on July 4th, 1776, which you could argue marks the beginning of the American Revolution. The French Revolution took place in the late 1780's, Bastille Day was July 14th, 1789, which I believe to be the beginning of the French Revolution, but I could be wrong on when it truly started. I'm not to sure on the history of the French Revolution, but I believe some say that some of their ideas came from the American Revolution.

 

[Patrick_S]

Does it really cover those? I think our version only includes your homestead, which is defined as your primary residence.

It covers everything is California.

In fact a few years ago a large department store chain (I believe it was Macys parent company Federated) started to make noise that they were going to challenge prop 13 because it hindered their ability to complete in the state. Of course this was front-page news on all the papers and consumers quickly threatened a boycott. Any talk about repealing 13 quickly died after the threatened boycott.

I personally would not be apposed to a modification that would make it cover only single-family homes. After all it's not as if the businesses that are covered by prop 13 are actually charging consumers any less for their goods.

 

[Cees Alons]

... I believe some say that some of their ideas came from the American Revolution.

And vice versa. There was a lot of communications going on between leaders of both revolutions.

Cees