Some Brief Notes by Brad About: Carousel (1956) on Blu-ray. (1 Viewer)

[Will Krupp]

My 2 cents:

Smooth Motion: I find on my Samsung that if I customize that brand's version of "smooth motion" (Samsung calls it "Auto Motion Plus") adjusting the Blur Reduction to 10, and the Judder Reduction to 0, I get no soap opera effect at all (it's the judder reduction that causes the problem).

It boggles my mind, though, why anyone would want to add extra, unnecessary processing (in this case in the form of blur reduction at its highest setting) to get between you and what's on the disc. Especially with the new Samsungs, which are all verified native 120hz panels and can properly reproduce 24fps without any help from frame interpolation. I'm not bashing you, everyone's entitled to their own preferences, but I honestly don't get it. It feels like trying to gild the lily to me.

 

[Robin9]

I feel a tad compelled to come to Sinatra's defense. I think Sinatra was far more than a "crooner" type singer. In his prime, he sang in an almost "operatic" manner (although his voice was not operatic). In the great Sinatra recordings, he really pushes out the notes with his diaphragm, sustaining the notes with amazing breath control like an opera singer. Sure, in a lot of his 40's era stuff he concentrated on crooner type songs. But when he went to Capitol Records, he became an entirely different singer. I don't know when Carousel was filmed, but in the years 1955-1956 Sinatra recorded In the Wee Small Hours, Songs for Swingin' Lovers!, Close to You and A Swingin' Affair! Sinatra was at his vocal peak at this time. Just listen to the sustained note of the final "night and daaaaaaaaay". It is this extra powerful dimension in his voice that lifts Sinatra above the "standard" crooners of his era.

IMO, Sinatra peaked around 1958-1959. Only the Lonely was released in 1958. This album IMO features Sinatra's most "epic" vocals. What's New? alone is worth the price of admission. You can actually get a bit of a glimpse of how Sinatra would have done in Carousel on the album The Concert Sinatra, released in 1963. IMO, Sinatra had lost some of his range by then, but he does a bang-up job on Soliloquy and You'll Never Walk Alone. Had he recorded these in 1955-1956, they would have been even better.

In her autobiography, Jane Russell mentions working with Frank Sinatra on Double Dynamite:

"Frank and I sang together though, and to balance our voices he stood two feet away from the mike and I had to crawl in it. What a voice that man has!"

 

[classicmovieguy]

I watched "Double Dynamite" again a few weeks ago. Adorable film.

 

[WilliamMcK]

It boggles my mind, though, why anyone would want to add extra, unnecessary processing (in this case in the form of blur reduction at its highest setting) to get between you and what's on the disc. Especially with the new Samsungs, which are all verified native 120hz panels and can properly reproduce 24fps without any help from frame interpolation. I'm not bashing you, everyone's entitled to their own preferences, but I honestly don't get it. It feels like trying to gild the lily to me.

No offense taken at all! Here's the thing... as long as the judder reduction is entirely off, I don't think there's any frame interpolation. Truth is I don't see a difference either way... I based the decision to use this setting on web research on the best way to set up my particular model (a modest Samsung UN46EH6000)... but you know what... if I don't see a difference, you are probably right that it makes more sense to turn off the setting entirely... I'm going to try that and see how I like the PQ...

 

[Will Krupp]

No offense taken at all! Here's the thing... as long as the judder reduction is entirely off, I don't think there's any frame interpolation. Truth is I don't see a difference either way... I based the decision to use this setting on web research on the best way to set up my particular model (a modest Samsung UN46EH6000)... but you know what... if I don't see a difference, you are probably right that it makes more sense to turn off the setting entirely... I'm going to try that and see how I like the PQ...

That model IS a native 120hz panel so the settings they suggested probably work best with sporting events, some TV broadcasts, and gaming. All you need for blu-ray is a native refresh into which 24 can be divided (each frame in this case is flashed 5 times) Some older "120" sets were actually 60hz with a "Clear Motion" refresh of 120 but I think they phased those out entirely. Samsung certainly has. To quote the famous Alka Seltzer commercial of my youth, "Trrrrryyyy it you'll llliiiiiikkkkee it!"

 

[Aaron Silverman]

So. . .veering off-topic here a bit, but with new TVs (not el cheapo types), 120Hz is the way to go?

(Side note: I saw some 4K sets in action the other day at BJs, of all places. . .I usually much prefer DLP or plasma to LCD, but the 4K looked very nice!)

 

[AnthonyClarke]

I for one, when saying Gordon MacRae was the optimum choice for the role, was not denigrating Sinatra at all.
He is one of my all-time favourite singers. I have collected just about everything he recorded, including the complete Columbia years, and the complete UK edition of the Capitol era (much better sound than the corresponding complete US set) and even the separate Capitol 'singles' set.
I follow and collect him with almost as much fanatacism as I bestow upon Billie Holiday, Django Reinhardt and Fats Waller!
But it is really a matter of horses for courses .. .Gordon's voice really is a much better fit, though I enjoy the Sinatra versions he recorded in his Columbia years of the Rodgers and Hamerstein numbers, including of course the Soliloquy from Carousel.

 

[classicmovieguy]

Sinatra was a great actor, but I think he had a habit of playing the same type of role over and over again. Take for instance "Can-Can" where he makes no direct attempt to even try to conform to the overall period and style of the film. Shirley MacLaine, too, seems to play it as though its a Vegas production; leaving only Chevalier, Louis Jourdan and Juliet Prowse to keep the true spirit of the original musical in some type of recognizable form.

 

[MatthewA]

The closest Frank Sinatra got to playing Billy Bigelow.

 

[David_B_K]

I for one, when saying Gordon MacRae was the optimum choice for the role, was not denigrating Sinatra at all.
He is one of my all-time favourite singers. I have collected just about everything he recorded, including the complete Columbia years, and the complete UK edition of the Capitol era (much better sound than the corresponding complete US set) and even the separate Capitol 'singles' set.
I follow and collect him with almost as much fanatacism as I bestow upon Billie Holiday, Django Reinhardt and Fats Waller!
But it is really a matter of horses for courses .. .Gordon's voice really is a much better fit, though I enjoy the Sinatra versions he recorded in his Columbia years of the Rodgers and Hamerstein numbers, including of course the Soliloquy from Carousel.

Yes, I prefer that UK Capitol set as well. They also include the compilation albums which feature most of Sinatra's best singles, so there is no need to add "bonus tracks" to the concept albums as the USA set did. The SACDs of 5 of the Capitol albums are better still.

I'm not saying Sinatra would have been better than MacRae; just that I do think he could have pulled it off.

Sinatra was a great actor, but I think he had a habit of playing the same type of role over and over again. Take for instance "Can-Can" where he makes no direct attempt to even try to conform to the overall period and style of the film. Shirley MacLaine, too, seems to play it as though its a Vegas production; leaving only Chevalier, Louis Jourdan and Juliet Prowse to keep the true spirit of the original musical in some type of recognizable form.

While Sinatra was a good actor, once he got into the rat pack years, his film performances often have a phoned in quality.

The closest Frank Sinatra got to playing Billy Bigelow.

I prefer the later recording Sinatra made on Reprise with Nelson Riddle. Even though he had lost some top notes after 1959, there is more heft to his voice in the later version.The Sinatra of 1946 does sound a bit lightweight for the part. If you listen to the complete Columbia recordings, you hear Sinatra develop the deeper, more mature "Capitol Sound" around 1950.

 

[lionel59]

OK. CAROUSEL is- I believe- the best Broadway to Hollywood musical I have ever seen (followed closely by THE MUSIC MAN).
Great Alfred Newman orchestrations and scoring. Great location cinematography. Subtle and sensitive direction by Henry King. The Writers Guild nominated it for the Best Written Film Musical of the year- beaten by THE KING AND I- so they, like me, must have liked the flashback device added by Phoebe and Henry Ephron. Perfectly suited to cinema (and film noir and I think the anti-hero leading character makes this as close to a' noir musical' as you can get from this era) this structure gives the Billy Bigelow character more dialogue and shows him re-examing his life on the earth, thus leading to his ultimate repentance and change. Most people viewing the movie for the first time forget that Billy must die at some point (there is no more commentary from 'heaven' after the lead-in to JUNE IS BUSTIN' OUT ALL OVER) so his death scene-beautifully played and scored- still comes as something of a shock.I have read the play LILIOM and the libretto of CAROUSEL. In LILIOM, the lead character goes to Purgatory for 15 years. In CAROUSEL, he is told that 15 years have passed in mere minutes. I much prefer the Ephron's idea of beginning with Billy in 'heaven' for an undetermined time, hearing there is family trouble on earth and him still thinking he has had a son.His desire to return and help from the outset shows a sympathetic element in his personality which we do not otherwise see until the Soliloquy. It is the side of him which only Julie sees and which we see fully emerge after he is humbled by her forgiving approach to the abuse that she received
I like Sinatra as a singer and an actor and have heard him sing selections from the score (inc. the version of IF I LOVED YOU recorded for the movie). He is good but this score requires a more operatic voice which MacRae offers along with a subtle and moving performance. His best on film, in my opinion. If the film had made more money I'm sure he (and it) would have been up for more awards. Fox understandably backed the equally good film of THE KING AND I at award time, a huge hit. The Directors Guild, however,remembered CAROUSEL and voted for Henry KIng in sufficient numbers so that he was amongst the finalists for this movie.
Re the current feminist objections to the play (and movie's) supposed promotion of spousal abuse due to the famous line of Julie's near the end of the film (it is the last line of the Molnar play- he loved the added graduation scene and told R+H so at a dress rehearsal of the play in '45): The striking of Julie (which she herself diagnoses as coming from his frustration and unhappiness at being out of work) is denounced by every character in the show (more so than in the original play). Billy himself admits that he hit her because she said something that was right which he had no answer for, a tacit confession that he knew he had done the wrong thing. (This dialogue comes from one of the scenes in which he is reflecting on his life on earth).The pain which Julie states she did not feel was not physical pain but emotional pain, as she immediately forgave him for his wrongdoing. I have always found this profoundly touching. 1 Corinthians 13 states that "(perfect) love takes no account of a suffered wrong'. Hearing this finally shames/convicts Billy for his poor behaviour and leads to his final confession of love to Julie in the closing scene. What attracted me to this musical from a very young age (it's first TV broadcast in Melbourne in 1970) was its depiction of adult situations and emotions in the context of a musical fantasy. I have never understood the reaction that Julie's line about "not being hurt" was in any way advocating that spousal abuse is OK and should be endured happily. To me, this is a warped and ill-considered understanding of what this line is saying and what the whole play/film is about.( Also, let's not forget that this is set in the 19th century)
Time magazine agreed with Richard Rodgers that this was the best of his shows and went even further,voting it the Musical of the 20th Century in 2000.Apart from a desire to see the restoration of the deleted first song 'You're a Queer One Julie Jordan' (Fox didn't hang on to their out-takes) I have no complaints regarding this stage-to-screen musical and have enjoyed it countless times over the past 44 years. Some friends I have introduced it to have applauded at the end (the only movie I can recall where this has happened).
Regarding the recent Blu Ray release, I think it's pretty disastrous.Too dark, too blue,bad skin-tones, bad levels of contrast. To my eyes, the SD looks much more like the film as I recall seeing it in cinemas (when a good, unfaded print was being shown). The HD version released by Fox at the same time as the standard dvd release is far superior. It- like THE KING AND I - needs to be remastered.

 

[AnthonyClarke]

A very good summary, Michael/Lionel, of our mutual favourite movie... I perhaps like the new transfer a bit more than you, but also prefer the HD version apart from the Park scene where it highlights the fact that it's filmed in-studio. The clambake sequence (with my very favourite song 'What's the Use of Wondering') comes up pretty well in the new Blu, I think, with good definition despite the (appropriate) inky blackness.
I guess I'll have to watch it all again very soon .......

 

[bujaki]

I agree with Michael/Lionel's assessment of Carousel and the issue of spousal abuse. One point, however: Carousel is set in the 19th century, but Molnar's play, Liliom, was written in the 20th century and it is NOT realistic, but belongs, rather, to the symbolist movement in early 20th century drama. It has a timeless, ethereal quality to it. This ambiance is captured very well in Borzage's film version of Liliom.
And yes, Anthony, "What's the Use of Wond'ring" encapsulates Julie's unquestionable feelings about Billy. It tells you all you need to know about their relationship.

 

[edelweissflower]

And I believe, Will, from what I have read, that it was the favourite score of Richard Rodgers.

It was, Pipe Dream (1955) was the only musical of his which he didn't like, which I love and should be made into a film.

 

[edelweissflower]

OK. CAROUSEL is- I believe- the best Broadway to Hollywood musical I have ever seen (followed closely by THE MUSIC MAN).
Great Alfred Newman orchestrations and scoring. Great location cinematography. Subtle and sensitive direction by Henry King. The Writers Guild nominated it for the Best Written Film Musical of the year- beaten by THE KING AND I- so they, like me, must have liked the flashback device added by Phoebe and Henry Ephron. Perfectly suited to cinema (and film noir and I think the anti-hero leading character makes this as close to a' noir musical' as you can get from this era) this structure gives the Billy Bigelow character more dialogue and shows him re-examing his life on the earth, thus leading to his ultimate repentance and change. Most people viewing the movie for the first time forget that Billy must die at some point (there is no more commentary from 'heaven' after the lead-in to JUNE IS BUSTIN' OUT ALL OVER) so his death scene-beautifully played and scored- still comes as something of a shock.I have read the play LILIOM and the libretto of CAROUSEL. In LILIOM, the lead character goes to Purgatory for 15 years. In CAROUSEL, he is told that 15 years have passed in mere minutes. I much prefer the Ephron's idea of beginning with Billy in 'heaven' for an undetermined time, hearing there is family trouble on earth and him still thinking he has had a son.His desire to return and help from the outset shows a sympathetic element in his personality which we do not otherwise see until the Soliloquy. It is the side of him which only Julie sees and which we see fully emerge after he is humbled by her forgiving approach to the abuse that she received
I like Sinatra as a singer and an actor and have heard him sing selections from the score (inc. the version of IF I LOVED YOU recorded for the movie). He is good but this score requires a more operatic voice which MacRae offers along with a subtle and moving performance. His best on film, in my opinion. If the film had made more money I'm sure he (and it) would have been up for more awards. Fox understandably backed the equally good film of THE KING AND I at award time, a huge hit. The Directors Guild, however,remembered CAROUSEL and voted for Henry KIng in sufficient numbers so that he was amongst the finalists for this movie.
Re the current feminist objections to the play (and movie's) supposed promotion of spousal abuse due to the famous line of Julie's near the end of the film (it is the last line of the Molnar play- he loved the added graduation scene and told R+H so at a dress rehearsal of the play in '45): The striking of Julie (which she herself diagnoses as coming from his frustration and unhappiness at being out of work) is denounced by every character in the show (more so than in the original play). Billy himself admits that he hit her because she said something that was right which he had no answer for, a tacit confession that he knew he had done the wrong thing. (This dialogue comes from one of the scenes in which he is reflecting on his life on earth).The pain which Julie states she did not feel was not physical pain but emotional pain, as she immediately forgave him for his wrongdoing. I have always found this profoundly touching. 1 Corinthians 13 states that "(perfect) love takes no account of a suffered wrong'. Hearing this finally shames/convicts Billy for his poor behaviour and leads to his final confession of love to Julie in the closing scene. What attracted me to this musical from a very young age (it's first TV broadcast in Melbourne in 1970) was its depiction of adult situations and emotions in the context of a musical fantasy. I have never understood the reaction that Julie's line about "not being hurt" was in any way advocating that spousal abuse is OK and should be endured happily. To me, this is a warped and ill-considered understanding of what this line is saying and what the whole play/film is about.( Also, let's not forget that this is set in the 19th century)
Time magazine agreed with Richard Rodgers that this was the best of his shows and went even further,voting it the Musical of the 20th Century in 2000.Apart from a desire to see the restoration of the deleted first song 'You're a Queer One Julie Jordan' (Fox didn't hang on to their out-takes) I have no complaints regarding this stage-to-screen musical and have enjoyed it countless times over the past 44 years. Some friends I have introduced it to have applauded at the end (the only movie I can recall where this has happened).
Regarding the recent Blu Ray release, I think it's pretty disastrous.Too dark, too blue,bad skin-tones, bad levels of contrast. To my eyes, the SD looks much more like the film as I recall seeing it in cinemas (when a good, unfaded print was being shown). The HD version released by Fox at the same time as the standard dvd release is far superior. It- like THE KING AND I - needs to be remastered.

Totally agree with you, I personally don't think that when people today say this musical play/film is about spousal abuse, they know what they are saying or talking about, for one simple reason: I don't think Rodgers & Hammerstein thought it was about the subject. As you say it was set in the 19th Century they were clear about that. Also I feel if asked Hammerstein himself would like you, have quoted 1 Corinthians 13 in his reply as he was very into that, he had a strong christian faith and always worshipped at Southwark Cathedral when ever he was here in the UK.

 

[John Maher_289910]

One of my problems with CAROUSEL is that Billy needs to be a stupid kid, not a grown man. At least for me. Otherwise he's just completely unlikable. Sinatra certainly was no kid, but I think he would have portrayed the stupid loser better than MacRae, even if he wouldn't have done the songs as well. He certainly wouldn't have stunk on the songs, just would have been different. Gordon MacRae's Curly in OKLAHOMA!, on the other hand, is perfect. In fact nobody can ever touch his performance in it. Nor Shirley's. Shirley Jones in CAROUSEL is sheer vocal perfection. I also hate the location/studio approach. The studio never, ever looks real, and it hovers over the entire production. Every exterior should have been done outdoors, even on the Fox lot. It has a beautiful score, and it's better than probably 90% of all the musicals ever written, but it is not a go to musical for me.

 

[John Maher_289910]

Frank and Shirley

 

[Larry Geller]

STILL no individual Blu-Ray release.

 

[PaulaJ]

It was, Pipe Dream (1955) was the only musical of his which he didn't like, which I love and should be made into a film.

I love Pipe Dream, too. I hope you have the Encores recoding.

 

[RichMurphy]

I love Pipe Dream, too. I hope you have the Encores recording.

I saw the Encores PIPE DREAM, and was impressed that the Rodgers and Hammerstein license owners gave Leslie Uggams a second chance after her disastrous performance of their "June Is Bustin' Out All Over" from (yes, this is on-topic) CAROUSEL.