So what's the big deal about Criterion Collection? (1 Viewer)

[Runar_R]

Van Helsing Ultimate 3-disc: $54.99

Battle of Algiers 3-disc CC: $49.95

Doesn't look that bad to me.

One problem with Criterion is that they rarely are on sale. They are usually selling for round their list-price, while the blockbusters all can be found at massive discounts.

For the record, "Battle of Algiers" to me is the best release of 2004. Stunning

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Other companies that make movies (and bring in billions of dollars each year in revenue) have that cushion. When was the last time you saw "Criterion Pictures" in front of a movie in your local multiplex?

Double-edged sword: Criterion also doesn't have to spend money to make movies. Yeah, the studios make bucks off of their films, but they have to pay for them as well - Criterion only invests money in the cost of making DVDs...

 

[Michael Elliott]

Yeah, but how much do you think it costs to license obscure cult trash like Sadomania or Werewolf Woman as opposed to one of the major classics of world cinema such as Tokyo Story or Fanny & Alexander?

How many people have heard of Bergman compared to a Jess Franco or Larry Cohen? Do you think film buffs are going to check out a Jess Franco or a film called SADOMANIA over movie Gods like Bergman, Altman or whoever else that Criterion releases? How many people here own a Criterion compared to a Jess Franco film or a film called KILLER NUN?
And yes, I'd be willing to bet Blue Underground has to go through more trouble to track down stuff for their films. You mentioned SADOMANIA but unlike the two versions of THE LEOPARD or F&A, this film is out there in at least 7 different versions, not including the alternate tracks and yet BU was able to get even more unseen footage. Pretty much each country gets a different version of these films so yes it takes a lot of time and trouble trying to track each one of them down.
The audiance for the smallest Criterion title is still a lot bigger than these films being released by BU, Synapse or Anchor Bay back in their day. You could probably add Kino to this list since not even the major will touch silent films.
As far as how much...I know a few prices but I believe the biggest was $250,000. I know another studio paid the most at $90,000 and their biggest selling title sold under 2500 copies.
BTW, WEREWOLF WOMAN was a Shriek Show title. Either way, I think more own TOKYO STORY.

 

[Dom]

To learn about Criterion DVD go to the site:
http://www.criterionco.com/asp/
Snoop around, if anything interests you rent the discs.
You will or will not be fulfilled
Easy as that.
Cheeers

 

[Kevin M]

On the other hand, I cannot justify acquiring the Criterion version of Spartacus, but I would perhaps if it sold for considerably less.

I don't know how low is enough for you but
DeepDiscountDVD has SPARTACUS for 35.96$....considering the excellent transfer, sound, commentary & extras I think that is a pretty good price. YMMV.

 

[Carlo_M]

Double-edged sword: Criterion also doesn't have to spend money to make movies. Yeah, the studios make bucks off of their films, but they have to pay for them as well - Criterion only invests money in the cost of making DVDs...

But not as double-edged as that statement would have us believe. Studios are making money in the end w/ their theatrical ventures. If they weren't they'd go bankrupt (and a lot have in the past). What's left now are the studios that are best at maximizing profit and minimizing costs (hence the "Hollywood Formula" for making movies).

And since the own their own movies, they don't have to pay the licensing fee that Criterion has to pay to put a title out on DVD. And many own their own authoring houses, or have sweetheart deals with houses due to huge amounts of work they give them, that it costs Criterion more to make a DVD than, say, Warner or Sony.

 

[Jon Robertson]

BTW, WEREWOLF WOMAN was a Shriek Show title.

I'm aware of that, but Colin originally mentioned Blue Underground, Shriek Show and Synapse as three examples of independent cult DVD distributors, and I was responding to that.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I'm aware of that, but Colin originally mentioned Blue Underground, Shriek Show and Synapse as three examples of independent cult DVD distributors, and I was responding to that.

Colin did? Colin doesn't remember that. In fact, Colin's never even heard of Werewolf Woman...

 

[Carlo_M]

Agreed Colin.

But I think we should be able to agree that, in the end, all things factored in, it probably does cost more for Criterion to license, restore (if needed) and release a DVD for a film they do not own (which is to say ALL of them), than it does for major Hollywood studios to release their product onto DVD.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I brought up Synapse, Blue Underground and the other guys. These guys are far from majors and I'd put some of their work right up there with Criterion, transfer wise. As I said, they are dealing with films where there could be upwards of 7 versions plus many different audio tracks. These films have been in vaults for years and they've never looked good, yet BU make them look new.

Again, I hope this isn't coming off as an attack on Criterion but these other small guys are doing just as good, if not better work and aren't charging $39.95 a disc.

 

[Glenn D]

Again, I hope this isn't coming off as an attack on Criterion but these other small guys are doing just as good, if not better work and aren't charging $39.95 a disc.

Well said.

 

[Kevin M]

And again I have to agree with the opinion that finding elements for Italian horror films from the 60's, 70's & 80's is a lot easier (and cheaper) than finding "good" elements from films from the 20's, 30's & 40's.

The audiance for the smallest Criterion title is still a lot bigger than these films being released by BU, Synapse or Anchor Bay back in their day.

I disagree, IMO foreign horror sells a lot better than foreign drama to the mass DVD crowd.

 

[Michael Elliott]

I disagree, IMO foreign horror sells a lot better than foreign drama to the mass DVD crowd.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Each year more and more people become interested in great cinema and those people will always go towards the likes of a Bergman and various other directors in Criterion's library. However, these people aren't going to bother looking at a Jess Franco film or a movie like NIGHT TRAIN MURDERS. Even if you haven't seen a Bergman movie, you at least know his name. I'm sure most never heard of Jess Franco or KILLER NUN until I mentioned them in this thread. Now that they know....I'm sure they'll take a Bergman over a Franco. We have various "group watchers" in the Movies thread and I'm sure some of those men/women haven't even heard of Franco.
Both Criterion and Blue Underground deal with cult items but I do believe more folks are interested in a good reputation over a film no one knows.
Something like SUSPIRIA is going to be in a higher demand and that's not the rare films we're dealing with. Argento, Fulci and Bava films have always been available in some form. The problem is with the smaller films that have never been seen uncut and in some cases, films that haven't been seen in decades, if ever. Having to track down a lost film with 5 different versions isn't an easy job. Even after finding it, making it look like a $60 Criterion is even harder.

 

[Kevin M]

I still don't buy that it is as difficult to locate the elements that you are referring to as it is for some of the titles that Criterion releases & even so (& more importantly) I am absolutely sure that the price for licencing Italian/French/American low budget horror films is a lot cheaper than licencing a Bergman, Fellini or Kurosawa film, so nonetheless the higher Criterion price is still understandable compared to BU or Synapse.

 

[Ted Todorov]

Again, I hope this isn't coming off as an attack on Criterion but these other small guys are doing just as good, if not better work and aren't charging $39.95 a disc.

And as much as I love Blue Underground their transfers are not Criterion quality. I was just watching Daughters of Darkness the other night. The film elements are in great shape, but the transfer looks very "digital" -- unstable and video-like, especially when it comes to the background. I am not an expert, maybe it is a question of bad compression. Criterion on the other hand is the master of the film-like transfer.
In any event this is a silly argument. If Criterion was charging too much, they'd be out of business by now. Instead they have a spectacular reputation.
I would much rather pay more to have a classic like Kagemusha be given the Criterion treatment, than have Fox do a cheaper, slip-shod release (they included only subtitles for the hearing-impaired on their R2-UK release). I'm not saying that every Criterion DVD is superior, but on the average, they care more and do a better job.
Ted

 

[Runar_R]

??? DVD Planet has all Criterions on a perpetual 35% off sale, with free shipping for orders over $25.

Yes, but that's just one website. Also, I was thinking more of regular stores. You don't agree it's easier to find Van Helsing on sale than say Tanner '88?

 

[MarkHarrison]

Yes, but that's just one website. Also, I was thinking more of regular stores. You don't agree it's easier to find Van Helsing on sale than say Tanner '88?

I certainly don't agree. Tanner '88 is on sale at DVD Planet. All Criterions are on sale at DVD Planet. All the time. I know exactly where to go to get this on sale.
Van Helsing? I haven't a clue. I'd have to look around to see if it's on sale anywhere.
So I'd say it's easier to find Tanner '88 on sale than Val Helsing.
If you're going to limit it to B&M stores, then I can't help you. But I'd never even consider looking for a Criterion at a B&M. If I did find what I was looking for, it almost certainly wouldn't approach the price I'd get at DVD Planet. So I'd wouldn't even bother looking. I find the whole concept of finding a local store with Tanner '88 both in stock and on sale completely ludicrous. That's like looking for a toaster oven at a sporting goods store. Sure, they might have them, but why wouldn't you start with the place that probably will have them and have them on sale?

 

[WarrenM]

Wow... I just watched my "Fat Girl" Criterion DVD, and it is amazing! I have never seen a French film look this good on DVD (Probably as most of them are PAL-NTSC transfers). I was pretty much in awe of the picture quality. Clear, vivid colors... sharp detail.. no traces of dust and dirt. Perfection! The DTS track was very nice (even though this film really didn't need it). Definately worth the wait. I look forward to receiving "Short Cuts" which will be my next Criterion. Now I know why people love them so much!

 

[Michael Reuben]

I have removed posts about the Criterion gift set being offered by Amazon, because there is already a separate thread about that topic.
M.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

But no doubt it's a "big deal".