So I was thinking about Star Wars on DVD... (1 Viewer)

[JeremySt]

Ive got my Definitive Collection, THX Faces Trilogy, Original '89 Widescreen Trilogy, and a working LD player. Ill transfer them to DVD-R.
The best anamorphic transfer and 6.1 surround sound in the world couldn't make me buy the special editions on DVD.



When DVD-R decks drop below $150, you can kiss VHS goodbye.
They may co-exist for a few years, but their usage will fade, like audio cassette tapes next to CD-R.

 

[David James]

"The ORIGINAL films are what people want"

Not all people. I prefer the "enhanced" versions. I have no data to suggest which version is really "what people want", although I wouldn't confuse opinions on this board with a representative random sample of the movie buying / renting population.

 

[AaronMan]

Lucas could easily put the original version on one side and the new version on the other side. Then, a second disc with extra stuff.

I think Lucas may feel kind of sad about the pre-recorded VHS market fading away. You see, VHS tape wears out over time. The more you play it, the more it decays. DVD is digital, and will look exactly the same on the one thousandth time as it did one the first time. These movies will only have to be bought one time. Sure, he could put a slightly different feature in there, and there will be another format change, but still, most of us will only have to buy it once.

The Special Edition is a mixed blessing in my opinion. I love the fact that that ILM cleaned the movie before they added all the crap. All the harsh matte lines were lessened, and all the "grey boxes" were toned down/removed during the space scenes. This is sort of like cleaning the Mona Lisa, and I'm cool with that. I bet he has a restored, pre-special edition version somewhere in his Lucasfilm vaults...

However, changing stuff like Solo shooting second, adding that horrible looking "my first 3d Jabba model" in there, the man-in-suit wompa, and that crappy singing number in Jabba's palace is inexcusable. This is like saying, "I think the Mona Lisa needs a cool hat, and she should be sticking her tongue out, so I'll just paint that in!"

 

[.Michael.J.N.]

^^ Very Apt Description...

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on it as well.

-Michael

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

I am also in the camp of liking the new versions as opposed to the originals. Just take a look at EP II and how technically advanced that film is, it's just jaw dropping what they've done in that film, and i'm certain that EP III will be even more so. It would really suck to see EP I, II, III back to back and then get to EP IV and see that DRAMATIC change in the look and quality of the film.

All he's doing is bridging the gap between the films so that they match and i'm all for it. This business that the "effects being cheesy was part of the charm" is pure nonsense to me, he clearly didn't intend for the effects to be cheesy, they just turned out that way because of the limitaions of visual effects of the time.

As for releasing the originals as an option, it would be nice, but he isn't. I hate to say this, but the original trilogy was unfinished, they were a rough draft, it's unfortunate they so many fans just got used to them. I want the finised versions so the story flows better. I would love to have them in 2004 but that's very unlikely.

 

[Joshua_Y]

Your average Joe doesnt really care about whether its the SE or the Original. Personally, I thought the SE was better and represented what GL wanted to do originally. Gave it a bigger scope I think, fleshed the galaxy out more and I cant wait to the new editions hes workin on!

 

[David Lambert]

Count me in the "original" camp. I want them as I first fell in love with them in theaters, a long long time ago...

Just as with E.T., there is no reason not to provide both. If GL wants to wait and not give us anything until he can provide his "definative version" (hardly new news...it's been stated for a while now), that's okay. Just give me the "Coke Classic" at the same time as "New Coke", okay?

 

[David Rogers]

That's kinda my point folks. That he won't offer theatrical OT cuts ... . period. Whether he's doing touchups on effects and restoration, or inserting/deleting entirely new footage is irrelevant since I still am now firmly of the opinion he won't issue original OT discs.

 

[Daniel Becker]

I want to make my opinion as clear as possible, so here goes. I'm 26 years old and I fell in love with the original Trilogy while watching them on dubbed copies of the VHS and Beta tapes of the film. I can still remember the joy those movies brought me and the creativity they spawned in my life. I also remember being taken to see Jedi in the theaters and it was a wonderful experience to see a "new" Star Wars movie at the time in the theaters.


So, when the movies were re-released in the theaters with the revisions I can honestly say I enjoyed them even more. I really felt the movie felt as new then as it did 15 years before and that was because Lucas had updated the effects and made the film look more like a movie done in 1997.


So, as you can see i'm in favor of the new versions. I feel the movies are only better with the revisions. I might argue that the Han Solo shooting second revision was stupid but thats the only "issue" I had with the changes. So, I can't wait to see what they do with the DVDs for the Trilogy and I hope he does make some further changes and additions to the films if he feels they're necessary to the overall experience. As long as he keeps the original vision in mind I don't have a problem with it. Would I still be interested in having the original movies on a DVD? Sure! But, if given the choice between seeing the originals and seeing the new versions I would most certainly choose to see the new versions. The movies just wouldn't give me the same "feeling of belief" if I had to see those space scenes with the boxes around each ship and sloppy looking explosions. When you see the new versions you can actually "believe" again because the scenes look more convincing and further the immersion into the Star Wars universe! Luke Skywalker will live forever in my mind.



Dan.b

 

[Tony Whalen]

This business that the "effects being cheesy was part of the charm" is pure nonsense to me, he clearly didn't intend for the effects to be cheesy, they just turned out that way because of the limitaions of visual effects of the time.

Thanks John. You beat me to it.

Hey, I love the originals as much as any one else. But I *also* think that the SE's are great. As Daniel indicated, I think the only thing that really sucks is Han shooting second. That was an idiotic change. (I'm not too mad about the digital Jabba in A New Hope either...)

Beyond that, the SE's are great, IMO. (I'll still hang on to my widescreen copies of the originals though...heh.)

 

[Qui-Gon John]

That he won't offer theatrical OT cuts ... . period. Whether he's doing touchups on effects and restoration, or inserting/deleting entirely new footage is irrelevant since I still am now firmly of the opinion he won't issue original OT discs.

Actually, if we got the original theatrical cuts, but with touched up effects or restoration, whatever you want to call it, but without any scenes or dialouge being cut or changed, I would like that. I'm not such a purist that I'd say I want to see it exactly as it was, flaws and all, (translucent snow speeders and matte lines). I'm all for fixing those things, just leave the scene content and dialogue alone. No Greedo shoots first, no "Alert my Star Destroyer to perpare for my arrival".

 

[Keith M.]

The argument that Lucas wont release OT on DVD because of the cheesy effects showing their age doesnt hold water. Then why in the hell did he release them on laser disc ?

BTW, all this speculation doesnt get us anything. Just be patient and enjoy 100s of other great dvd releases in the meantime...

 

[Jay Sylvester]

I have the Definitive Collection, the THX "Faces" set, the Special Edition box set, and two LD players. I'm prepared for the worst.

What is sad is that if Lucas doesn't budge, someone, somewhere, in a country far away is going to get a copy of that laserdisk and transfer it over.

You guys must not visit ebay very often. You're talking in past tense here.

I would NEVER advocate bootlegging, but I would recommend that when the OT shows up and it's all hacked up, with no theatrical cut to be found, you take your money and invest in a used LD player and some big shiny Star Wars discs. Leave the DVDs on the shelf.

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

Jay - which is exactly why I got onto eBay a couple of months ago, and won a decent LD player, the Indy trilogy in WS, and the Definitive Collection. It may not be the best format, but hey, I'm watching them. I have no reason to complain, nor will I if or when any DVDs show up. At least I know I paid for the real thing, not some half-assed Hong Kong DVD-R with unintelligible sound and burned-in subtitles.

 

[Douglas Bailey]

?

Well, no, but he did redo the FX on Star Trek: The Motion Picture, so possibly not the best example.

Personally, I want the unaltered theatrical editions, weaker FX work and all. If I have to stick with my laserdisc editions, so be it. But Episodes I and II have made it all the clearer that FX work is far from being the most important thing in a Star Wars film.

 

[Lyle_JP]

As longs as Jar-Jar is not in the OT...and, darn it all, HAN SHOT FIRST

First? Hell, Han's the only one who shot at all!

-Lyle J.P.

 

[Dwayne]

With DVD, why not offer both?

The SEs have some merits, like restored film elements and re-mastered sound. But there's quite a bit that I find undesirable...more than just the Han/Greedo scene:

Episode Four

1. The obvious Han/Greedo scene which totally interferes with Han's character evolution. Also, you would think that Jabba would hire someone that could hit point blank targets, right? Of course, we learn that Han isn't a humanoid based on his shape-shifting neck.

2. Jabba is a ruthless crime boss, right? Then wouldn't Jabba have Han whacked when he stepped on his tail? Instead, he puts up with it and makes some goofy facial expression instead of being angered by it. Also, I feel this addition hinders the pacing. Jabba the Don Corleone of the galaxy? Hardly.

3. Milliseconds cut from laser inflicted imperial officers. Why even bother?

Episode Five

1. Suspense-reduced Wampa scene. It's not what you see, it's what you don't see that is usually more effective at inducing suspense and tension.

2. Luke's initial confrontation with Vader. While falling down steps in the carbon-freezing chamber, Luke makes some awful vocalization that I can't quite characterize a scream. But wait, this is just a tease for what's to come...

3. Dignified-Luke reducing scene inside Cloud City's central chasm. It is clear that Luke makes a choice to leap off the platform and plummet rather than except Vader's offer to join forces, perhaps knowing (through the force) that he will survive. Instead, he now screams like a little bitch as if he lost his footing. Sorry folks, IMO, this one is a big offender.

4. Vader's prepare my shuttle for my arrival line. Did Lucas honestly believe that we couldn't figure out that at some point, Vader departs Cloud city to rejoin with the Executor. I guess so. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop here. The "spelling out" of how Vader gets from point A to B apparently requires two more additional scenes that have less than phenomenal pacing...

5. Cut-shot of Vader's shuttle leaving Bespin and heading toward the Executor. Hinders pacing, IMO.

6. Vader's arrival on Executor. This one comes totally out of left field with out of whack musical cue and all. Every time I view this, it just totally takes me out of the Tie/Falcon chase scene that preceded it. Right after this scene, we are placed back into the chase, in which the momentum that was building (largely due to William's fantastic score) has to be re-established from scratch. The transition during this anomaly is jarring to say the least. But...hey, now I know how Vader got back on his Super Star Destroyer. Mission accomplished. :rolleyes

Episode Six

1. "Jabba's Palace Musical Review". Here, we have the Weequay Skiff guard reduced to playing the gong amongst the whole wacky madness of it all. Some find it fun. Emotionally disturbing is how I classify it.

2. The new ending is kinda cool save for the new musical piece, which feels more like John Tesh than it does John Williams, IMO.

Special Note: ROTJ's space battle is the best space battle ever captured on film. I find it amazing to this day, that they did everything with traditional models and physical compositing. Amazing stuff.

Now, don't get me wrong. There are some additions to the OT that I find favorable, which would include (aside from the restored film elements and digital soundtrack):

1. All matte line cleanups.

2. CGI Dewbacks.

3. Flying remote droids.

4. Digital touch-up to land speeder underside.

5. Arrival into Mos Eisley.

6. The Battle Of Yavin - Although I still think the scene works without the CGI-enhancements, they are just way too cool to overlook.

7. Snow-Speeder matte line induced cockpit transparency cleanup.

8. Increased scope of Cloud City.

9. Cut-shot of Bantha herd with camera pan to Jabba's sail barge.

10. Interplanetary celebration of the Empire's demise.

But the chances of making some new hybrid version utilizing the above as a guideline of what to keep and what to eject is slim to none. That's why I think that it's just easier to include the untouched OT (while keeping restored films elements and re-mastered digital sound) and the brand-spanking-new definitive edition.

I would normally post something like the above in the Movies section, but I'm using the points listed above to demonstrate why I feel that both versions should be made available. In all honestly, I can only vouch for myself in finding the OT desirable. But it certainly seems that I'm far from being alone in my wishes.

I think David has brought up some interesting points, the most interesting being that perhaps Lucas is trying to "phase-out" the OT's existence, which would be most disconcerting. But I do harbor some hope that, perhaps, both camps will be considered when the eventual DVDs hit production.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Jeffrey Gray]

You know, I think that George's whole thing about the originals not coming to DVD is a ruse. After all, wouldn't he rather surprise us by saying that the originals are NOT coming to DVD, until the official press release comes out and the originals turn out to be on there? (Didn't George say that Episode I wasn't coming to DVD until 2006, up until practically the DAY that the official press release for the DVD went out?)

 

[Barry Woodward]

Star Wars: The Ultimate Editions

Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace

01. Add the cutscene with Obi-Wan emerging, Apocolypse Now style, from the swamp after hiding from droids. He tries to navigate the forest without being noticed when a battle droid spots him. Obi-Wan ignites his lightsaber cutting the droid in two. Then two STAPs spot him and as he raises his lightsaber to deflect the attacks it shorts out forcing him to flee.
02. Add the cutscene of Qui-Gon scolding Obi-Wan for leaving his lightsaber power on and forgetting to recharge it.
03. Add the bongo over the waterfall scene.
04. Shoot a new scene in which Obi-Wan chases away a band of Tusken Raiders who are shooting at the Queen's ship ( to give him something to do while on Tatooine).
05. Shoot a new scene showing the people of Naboo in concentration camps.
06. Add the cutscene with Anakin fighting Greedo.
07. Add the cutscene of Qui-Gon discovering the probe droid and CG in a second probe droid that witnesses Qui-Gon cut down the other and then cut to the scene of that probe droid reporting to Darth Maul.
08. Add a light speed jump from the cockpit point of view.
09. Add Across the Stars to the scene between Anakin and Padme on the Naboo ship.
10. CG Yoda. He should look consistant throughout all six movies.
11. Shoot new scene in the Senate with Jimmy Smits as Bail Organa.
12. Shoot new scene with Count Dooku talking to Qui-Gon via hologram.
13. Add more cut scenes into the lightsaber duel.
14. Shoot some new insert shots of a wounded Qui-Gon Jinn distracting Darth Maul so he turns around and then have Obi-Wan jump up, grab Qui-Gon's lightsaber and slice Maul in half.
15. Add Count Dooku at Qui-Gon's funeral. He walks up to Yoda and Mace and says, "This is the final straw!" and starts to walk away. Yoda follows him and tries to talk some sense into him. Dooku then tells Yoda he will no longer serve a corrupt Senate and that he is quiting the Jedi Order. Yoda goes back to the funeral. Then he says his line, "Always two there are. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice."
16. John Williams should make adjustments to the score to account for the new and extended scenes.

Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones

01. Add the Senate cut scene at the beginning of the movie where Palpatine announces that Senator Amidala has been assassinated and then she appears addressing the Senators.
02. Add more scenes of the Coruscant chase.
03. Add the cut scene of Obi-Wan and Anakin's encounter with the bouncer of the night club.
04. Add the scene where Obi-Wan visits the analysis droid to find the origin of the toxic dart.
05. Add the cut scene of Obi-Wan talking with the Jedi librarian about Count Dooku.
06. Add the cut scene where Padme witnesses Anakin having a nightmare about his mother aboard the refugee cruiser. Adding this scene will make the scene where Padme says, "You had another nightmare." make more sense.
07. Add the cut scenes featuring Anakin and Padme visiting Padme's family on Naboo. These scenes better explain Padme's feelings toward Anakin and her trying to hide her feelings from her family.
08. Add the footage at the end of the Meadow Picnic scene where after Anakin and Padme roll in the grass they kiss and Padme pulls away again. Anakin gets up on the beast he was surfing on and offers his hand to Padme. Padme takes it and they ride off together.
09. Add the cut scene of the massifs attacking Obi-Wan on Geonosis. Then he looks through his macro binoculars to see battle droids being loaded onto Federation ships.
10. Add the scene where Padme tells C-3PO that she is worried about Anakin.
12. Add the scene where Anakin finds dead bodies of Shmi's rescue posse.
11. Add the farewell to the Lars scene in which Owen asks Anakin to stay on Tatooine and not get involved.
12. Add the cut scene of Padme and Anakin meeting Count Dooku.
13. Add the cut scene of Padme and Anakin's trial.
14. Add more cut footage to the lightsaber duels with the extra dialogue.
15. Add Jar Jar Binks in the group of leaders witnessing the stormtroopers leaving for battle on Coruscant. Jar Jar should have a sad look on his face after realizing the ramifications of his actions.
16. The necklace that Anakin made for Padme in The Phantom Menace should be added to Padme's neck during the wedding scene.
17. John Williams should make adjustments to the score to account for the new and extended scenes.

Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope

01. Add Luke cutscenes intercutting them with the original opening. Begin with the shot of the Star Destroyer and then cut to the scene of Luke working on a moisture vaporator on the surface of Tatooine. He sees flashes and grabs his macro binoculars to see a battle between two ships in space. He drops what he's doing and jumps in his speeder to tell his friends what he saw. Cut back to Princess Leia ship being captured and R2-D2 and C-3PO escaping in the pod. Then cut to Luke arriving in Anchorhead and entering a building where his friends are hanging out. Luke is suprised to see his best friend Biggs Darklighter back from the Academy. The greet each other then Luke tells them all to go outside and see the battle. They look through the binoculars and only see the Star Destroyer. They mock him and go back inside. Cut to R2-D2 and C-3PO splitting up. Then cut to Luke and Biggs discussing the Empire and joining the Rebellion. They say their good-byes and then part. Continue the rest of the movie.
02. Add the Imperial March to scene when Darth Vader first appears on Princess Leia's ship.
03. In the scene where Obi-Wan scares the Tuskens away add an ignited lightsaber to his hand. The Tuskens, who have heard legends of a man with a magical sword who destroyed an entire Tusken village, run for their lives.
04. When Obi-Wan is talking to Luke about his father play Anakin's Theme in the background and then have it turn to the Imperial March as he talks about Vader.
05. Fix the lightsaber effects and fix the frame jump which occurs when a lightsaber is turned on.
06. Shoot a scene with the Emperor dissolving the Senate. Then cut to Tarkin breaking the news to the officers on the Death Star.
07. In the Cantina, replace the Duros with Neimoidians and add new aliens. Also any of the aliens that look dated give them a CG upgrade.
08. Replace the bleeding arm on the floor in the Cantina with a non-bleeding arm. Lightsabers should cauterize the wound.
09. Restore the original shooting scene between Han and Greedo.
10. Fix the CG Jabba the Hutt making him look more like he did in The Phantom Menace only older and fatter.
11. Remove the shot of Han stepping on Jabba's tail.
12. In the scene when R2 is wobbling down the stairs to the Falcon's hangar, CG R2 navigating the stairs like he does in Attack of the Clones.
13. Remove white boxes around space ships and add CG shots.
14. The scene of the Falcon being chased by the two Star Destroyers should be changed. Add the Falcon doing spinning moves and avoiding the Star Destroyers' fire.
15. When the Death Star destroys Alderaan insert a new scene of Yoda's reaction to the disturbence in the Force that is created by all those deaths and then cut to Obi-Wan reacting to it as well.
16. CG Dianoga.
17. Update the Death Star's paneling and computers to look like the ones seen in the prequels.
18. Replace the words "Tractor Beam" with Aurebesh lettering.
19. Add more stormtroopers on the Death Star.
20. Use Temuera Morrison's voice for all of the stormtroopers.
21. Spruce up the Obi-Wan/Vader duel. After the duel between Yoda and Dooku, George cannot use the excuse that the duel is more slow because the duelers are old. Age matters not. ILM should utilize the same special effect technique that they used to make Chris Lee look like he was an expert dueler, which I believe was adding his head onto a stuntman's body via CG. Add more dramatic music such as Duel of the Fates without the chanting.
22. Update the Death Star plans that are taken from R2. When the Rebels are reviewing the Death Star plans have them look similar to the plans we see in Attack of the Clones.
23. Drastically change the Death Star battle adding new scenes and more Tie Fighters.
24. Shoot a new scene where Darth Vader goes to Coruscant and lands his ship in the same building Count Dooku does at the end of Attack of the Clones. Except now the building is all fixed up and it is now Palpatine's palace. He meets with Palpatine to ask for forgiveness for his failure and inform him of a new Force user.
25. Give Chewbacca a medal.
26. John Williams should make adjustments to the score to account for the new and extended scenes. Certain musical themes from the prequels should be woven in with the original themes to provide connections between both trilogies.

Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

01. CG taun-tauns.
02. Make the battle of Hoth more epic. Show ships landing on Hoth and releasing AT-ATs. Make the AT-ATs move a little faster. Also have a ground battle between the Rebel soldiers and stormtroopers.
03. Use Temuera Morrison's voice for Boba Fett and all the stormtroopers.
04. Remove white boxes around space ships and add CG shots.
05. CG slug monster.
06. Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor. Add some more dialogue between him and Darth Vader using James Earl Jones.
07. CG Yoda. He should look consistant throughout all six movies.
08. Add cut footage of Yoda training Luke.
09. Shoot new scenes involving Boba Fett.
10. Shoot a new scene where the stormtroopers, after they capture Han, Leia and Chewie, bring Vader the box containing C-3PO in pieces. Vader orders the stormtroopers to bring the broken droid to Chewbacca's cell so that he can fix him. Adding this scene would make the scene when Vader stops Boba Fett from shooting at Chewie because C-3PO was on his back mean a lot more. This would show there still is a part of Anakin in Vader.
11. Fix the lightsaber effects.
12. Fix the shot of Luke jumping off the Cloud City platform.
13. John Williams should make adjustments to the score to account for the new and extended scenes. Certain musical themes from the prequels should be woven in with the original themes to provide connections between both trilogies.

Star Wars: Episode VI: Return of the Jedi

01. CG Jabba the Hutt. I know some might think it is unnecessary to replace the puppet, but I believe he should look consistant throughout all his appearances bearing in mind age and weight.
02. CG Rancor.
03. CG Yoda. He should look consistant throughout all six movies. Have Yoda disappear leaving his clothes behind like Obi-Wan.
04. Fix some of the effects on the speeder bike chase.
05. CG Ewoks.
06. Add an excerpt of Across the Stars when Luke is talking with Leia about their mother.
07. Use Temuera Morrison's voice for Boba Fett and all the stormtroopers.
08. In the battle of Endor add thousands of Ewoks so that it is believable that they defeat the stormtroopers.
09. Remove white boxes around space ships and add CG shots.
10. Erase the black blotches around Palpatine's face.
11. Fix the lightsaber effects. Erase the shadows that the lightsabers make on the floor.
12. During Anakin's death scene start with a sad rendition of the Imperial March and slowly evolve it to Anakin's Theme.
13. Replace Sebastion Shaw who played Anakin when he is unmasked with Hayden Christenson in make up to make him look older. Film new more meaningful dialogue for Anakin. In the original dialogue Anakin does not address what he should. Have him apologize for the destruction he has caused, have him thank his son for turning him back to the lightside, have him tell his son to rebuild the Jedi and have him say he loves him and his sister. Just before he dies he should say, "It is finished!" in reference to his destiny finally being fulfilled.
14. Show more planets celebrating at the end of the movie. Certain characters that we have met from all six movies should be shown on these planets. For example, when we see the shot of people celebrating on Tatooine show an old Watto, who is now unable to fly, sitting in a hover chair cheering. If Naboo and Jar Jar Binks survive Episode III, show an aged Jar Jar, who is now the leader of the Gungans, on Naboo celebrating with the people of Naboo and the Gungans. During these scenes play Across the Stars transitioning to the victory celebration music.
15. Anakin's spirit should be played by Hayden Christenson. Show him looking proudly at his son Luke with the spirit of Padme by his side.
16. John Williams should make adjustments to the score to account for the new and extended scenes. Certain musical themes from the prequels should be woven in with the original themes to provide connections between both trilogies.

 

[Ray H]

Not to sound harsh, but many of those additins are very unnecessary. Scenes like Luke witnessing the Tantive IV battle were cut for a reason. And CGI Ewoks? Why? It's not like they looked fake. Neimoidians on Tattooine? Why are they even on a planet they aren't native to and have no association with?

For any upcoming edition, I feel it may be best to just digitally grade the film to look more modern, rework the score, and redo the effects for consistency's sake. A few scenes may be added in or reworked, but nothing that drastically changes the story.