So . . . any guesses as to what major movie Ron will be posting tonight? (1 Viewer)

[Ronald Epstein]

Max,

I appreciate your comments, and do not take

any of them personally.

What I am concerned about is the fact that

you seem to have this mistrust on the way I

look at video quality -- especially with

Superbit titles.

Let me address two separate issues here....

First of all, I always include transfer

information in all my reviews. What I do

not do is get overly technical (and this is

where you may have a problem). While some

reviewers like to dazzle their readers with

tons of technical specs, my goal is to simply

let my readers know if the transfer is good

or bad. No big words -- no technical mumbo

jumbo. People want to know if the picture

looks sharp, looks natural, and how much

video noise and other transfer flaws are

evident. That can be summed up in a simple

paragraph without throwing more unecessary

information into the review. Some reviewers

like to get technical - I don't.

Second of all, I can't understand why

people like myself cannot get respect for

our opinions that Superbit titles are not

exactly what they are cracked up to be.

I never said I don't see a difference across

the board. Look at my very first Superbit review

on my archive page. I actually do state that

I saw subtle improvements in DRACULA and

THE FIFTH ELEMENT.

But overall, the differences I see are

small. Many members of this forum feel the

same way. Many members of this forum do not.

You compare SUPERBIT to many of the new

titles that Warner Brothers is putting out.

I think the Warner stuff looks just as good.

My television is ISF calibrated. I think I

can trust my eyes, and to be honest, I see

very little difference in Superbit vs. Standard.

I am not out to destroy Columbia. I simply

report it as I see it.

I can truly understand you being hesitant to

trust my video reviews. Perhaps you should

put your faith in someone else's review.

As I said, my goal is to write reviews that

speak to the majority of people who relate on

my level. I am not out to impress anyone with

technical specs or enlarged vocabulary. I

write what I see and I don't hold any punches

when it comes to giving a fair and accurate

review. If something looks bad, you can bet

I'll talk about it. If a studio starts

slipping in the quality of their product,

you can ensure I'll expose my feelings.

Your job is to find someone you can trust

whose views consistantly match yours. I may

not be that person.

Take it easy, Max.

 

[Terrell]

I must agree with Ron. SuperBit is mostly marketing jargon in my opinion. There is no need for a so-called SuperBit enhancement if the studios did it right to begin with. This is not to say some SuperBit titles aren't better than there predecessors. Yes, both Fifth Element and Dracula SuperBit titles are better than their originals. But for the most part, the great non-SuperBit titles easily equal the vast majority of SuperBit titles. Take a look at T2:UE. Most of Disney's animated titles, especially Tarzan:CE and Ultimate Toy Box. A Bug's Life CE is also the equal of any SuperBit title in my opinion. And many other titles are just as good. Personally, I don't see the need for SuperBit.

As for Ron's review, I like them. That's just my opinion. And I don't need a lot of other technical jargon either to understand whether the review is saying the picture is good. But people are different, and they like different things.

For the most Part Ron does not come off as a professional reviewer

And I've never seen Ron claim he was. He is not a critic. A critic and a reviewer are different. Ebert is a critic. Ron is a reviewer. In fact, there are probably many well know reviewers that aren't critics. A critic is someone who went to film school, and has studied in the art of film, as well as having a great deal of knowledge on the subject and it's history.

 

[Brennan Hill]

Keep those reviews coming Ron. I like them, if for nothing else the early word on a movie from someone whose opinion I respect! So when do you think you'll have an AOTC review?
Brennan

 

[MaxY]

Terril,
I did not in any way mean that as an insult. I actually prefer it that way because that is the way I am. I will unashamedly admit to being a Fanboy of movies. (If you don't believe me check out the link to my collection )
I can enjoy movies that a professionally reviewere can't help but tear up. It was really more of a positive statment, and I think Ron got that.
Ron & Terril
Now As for the Super-Bit DVDs it maybe as you say marketing Jargon. I am not even trying to suggest it is not possible for other studios to release DVDs with equal quality transfers. The thing is with SuperBit DVDs you know the transfer will be top notch. I have yet to see any SuperBit DVD that did not out do the earlier release.
Terril you seem to imply that Fifth Element and Dracula were titles that suffered in the original release. You must realize that both of these were very much considered Reference video transfers and the SuperBit versions then outdid them.
So what I guess I am really saying is that I buy into the whole idead that maybe having several commentary tracks and a DD 5.1 and a DD 2.0 and a DTS 5.1 is taxing the transfer rate of DVD and that there really is something to limiting the DVD to just a DD 5.1 and DTS track helping improve the quality.
I can say one thing for sure. THX certified is not what it is cracked up to be and to me Super Bit comes a heck of a lot closer to be the Good Housekeeping Seal of the DVD industry. If I see THX on a DVD I don't think that means hardly anything to the quality of a transfer, while if I see Super Bit, I know damn well it is going to be as good as anything out there.
Maybe Ron is less picky then me when it comes to transfers but I would be hardpressed to name any Transfer that actually looked better then the Super Bit DVDs. Sure you might find some that come close or even equal but not really better. IMO.
BTW Ron,
I am glad you did not take offense at what I was saying. I really did hope that it would help you in considering others ideas towards reviews.
I still do wish you would not keep all conversation on a movie bottled up in one thread though. It might work if the board was smaller, but there are just too many people with thoughts and comments on a movie to squeeze them into one thread.
Max

 

[Terrell]

I know you didn't Max. Just giving my opinion. As for the THX, I've seen a lot of fantastic THX transfers. Not to mention, there are far, far more THX DVDs than there are SuperBit. So of course there will be more DVDs suscpetible to lesser transfers. But I will say this. If in fact that SuperBit is the ultimate, then why is the THX T2:UE loaded with extras and a second disc, match any SuperBit title I've seen? Supposedly the advantage of SuperBit is that it has no extras, in favor of the best transfer and high-bit audio. Well, T2:UE is just as good as any SuperBit DVD I've seen. I've seen Air Force One, Dracula, and a couple of other SuperBits. I own Air Force One and Fifth Element.
While the original DVDs of Dracula and Fifth Element were certainly good DVDs, they weren't close to reference quality of other non-SB DVDs. So there was some room for improvement.
I agree that there are a number of flat out stunning SuperBit DVDs. But considering you can say the same for non-SB titles on DVD, I fail to see the point of it. To me, it seems like nothing more than another way to get money out of a consumer's pocket. Do it right the first time instead of constantly trying to dupe the consumer. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Ricardo C]

I like Ron's reviews. His approach is more of the "Will you enjoy this disc? Is the movie itself good, and does the transfer make it a desirable purchase for HT enthusiasts?" type than the "Will you see 1/10th of an inch worth of halos if you zoom in to 32x?" variety. There ARE reviewers that specialize on hardcore a/v quality issues, but others specialize on looking at the whole package. There's room for both kinds.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Why don't you guys start up your own Forum so you can write your own reviews if you think you can do a better job.

I feel that you are splitting hairs by saying this is somehow different (referring to earlier posts by myself and Michael). I think Max agrees with me on this point as well. Listen to it if it read like this...
"Why doesn't Ron start up his own movie production company so he can make his own films if he thinks he can do a better job."
That is the same words and it has the same meaning. It implies that critics are above criticism, as if opinions on a subject are above being criticized.
Before anyone assumes this is just harping or bickering, there is a very important point here, one that I think needs to be made because it is slowly being lost in an effort to curb poor behavior by some newer members.
The point is that DISCUSSION IS HTF...that's is what HTF is about. It is NOT Consumer Reports for HT, it is not Ebert's Reviews by HT geeks, it is not This Old Home Theater (though that would be a good show ).
Mike Knapp was spurring on vigorous discussion years ago when I first joined, and that sort of stuff is why I stuck around. POLITE discussion, fun discussion, but OPEN discussion as well. That means people will say they disagree with you, that they feel strongly that some speakers are worse than others, some films worse than others, or maybe even that Ron's review style is not to their taste.
In fact one of the most helpful things a review/critic can do is EXPLAIN what they don't like and why. That way the person people critiqued can take that feedback and perhaps use it, or ignore it instead. As long as it is respectful there should be no problem.
And to disallow that sort of discussion RUINS what HTF is. Thankfully it seems clear to me that Ron has no intent of having that happen.
I certainly am aware of opinions on my...lengthy...style along with Crawdaddy pointing out my Turner dyslexia (TMC,TCM). And that's just the nice negative opinions of stuff I have said around here.
Disagreement is not inconsiderate inherently.
BTW, Kael's biggest problem was that she didn't care if the artist learned anything from her criticism. She was writing for herself only, which she was good at. But as a thoughtful critic she often failed the film arts. I would guess that very few filmmakers left a Kael reading with a greater understanding of how they could improve their craft.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Gentlemen,
I am about to write a summary of my first
100+ reviews. I am going to post it in the
DVD Software Area later today.
I think it will better explain my position
here as a reviewer, some interesting flack
from other reviewers that I have received
these past 8 months, and the overwhelming
support I have received from the membership.
It's important to remember that this entire
forum was started partly by myself, an ordinary
guy that had very little expertise in Home
Theater.
To this day, I know far less about Home Theater
than most of the die-hards here.
I decided to take on the task of reviews for
this forum under the same premise. I knew very
little about writing good reviews. I also knew
very little about all the technical aspects of
DVD.
But you know what? Most people aren't impressed
with technical jargon or big vocabulary. People
want an easy read that tells them if the transfer
and audio is good or bad. I also add my personal
review of the movie because there are a lot of us
that don't see many movies in the theater. A good
or bad review will either help sell that title to
the membership or keep them away from it.
Max,
Regarding Superbit titles: Nobody ever
said that any studio is putting out transfers that
exceed that of Superbit. Even though this
is what you implied, I did not see that mentioned
above.
There are very strong arguments that Superbit
is nothing but a marketing ploy. What Columbia is
doing is not anything groundbreaking. One studio
executive I spoke with described it as re-running
an already available transfer and leaving the room
while the bitrate level runs at full capacity. Any
studio can do what Columbia does, but in a way, it's
only a gimmick.
Look at Columbia's recent release of Ali.
It's bare-boned. No extras, no DTS. Why did
Columbia not choose to make that a Superbit
title? The reason is simple. If they can coax you
to buy that title again next year, they will use
Superbit as a reason to do so.
Finally....
We compress all the discussion about movies
into one thread for the simple reason that the
forum was a mess before we implemented that policy.
We can't have a half-dozen threads about
Ocean's 11 running all at once. This was
a policy that was actually suggested by our
membership, Max.
I hope this helps resolve some of the problems
you have with my reviews and other personal
opinions. Watch for my summary thread to be
posted later today.

 

[Micheal]

My opinion on this will not change.
Take care guys,
Mike

 

[DarrenA]

If in fact that SuperBit is the ultimate, then why is the THX T2:UE loaded with extras and a second disc, match any SuperBit title I've seen?

The sheer amount of Edge Enhancement present in the T2:UE transfer would bump it out of contention against any of the Superbit titles.

Comparing films like Shrek, Toy Story 1&2, A Bug's Life:CE, etc, against the Superbits titles is a little ridiculous as well. These titles are direct digital transfers that eliminate the film-to-video process and should always look better than live action film on video.

A couple of titles that come to mind that do warrant some comparison to the Superbit line are Training Day and The Pledge.

I won't argue against the fact that CTHV makes themselves look bad by having the SB line. This tells me that they knowingly produce a DVD (prior to the SB version) that doesn't meet the highest quality that they can produce. They have proven with the SB line that this is their highest level of standard definition DVD quality.

 

[MickeS]

WARNING! Some of you are bordering on making personal attacks with your condemnations about Ron's reviews. Which first of all strikes me as rather stupid. Please be careful how you are wording your replies.

Would the same warning be made if one were to criticize for example Pauline Kael and her writing style?

/Mike

 

[Micheal]

, will receive a warning and have their message removed. Any future incident thereafter, will result in that member being removed from the forum.

Last time I checked Pauline Kael was not a forum member.
EDIT: It becomes personal when the person people are insulting can read the insults. i.e. I can talk about all of you off of the forum and nobody gets hurt. j/k

 

[Edwin-S]

Would the same warning be made if one were to criticize for example Pauline Kael and her writing style?

------------------------------------------------------------

The difference is that Pauline Kael was a professional wordsmith. Ms. Kael's writing quality is automatically going to be subjected to a higher level of scrutiny than an amateur writer......which is what Ron Epstein is. Ms. Kael probably had more formal education in film and writing than Mr. Epstein, therefore, she should be able to express herself more eloquently than your average amateur; if, as a professional, she wrote no better than an amateur she would deserve to be criticized.

Ron Epstein does not get paid to write reviews while Ms. Kael did. I have read Ron Epstein's reviews and it is apparent to me that they are written from a very personal point of view......."what I liked and what I didn't like". I never get the impression that he is trying to be an "objective critic". His opinions are more akin to what an "ordinary movie-goer" would express. Reading his reviews can be informative but I would be more likely to rent a movie that he has recommended first and then purchase it if I thought it had lived up to his views.

As for reviews of theatrical releases, I don't really care what anyone's views are. I go to see a movie at the theatre if it interests me, regardless of anyone's opinion of it.

 

[MaxY]

First Terrel (And I spelled it rightthis time Sorry bout before)
T2UE could look as good as a Superbit because it is on a DVD 18 or 2 Discs depending on the version you got. Remeber there are going to be SuperBit DVDs are going to have some 2 disc sets with the extras on a second disc.
Second I don't consider T2UE to look as good as a Superbit disc as pointed out by someone else.
Then you also said that the Original releases of Dracula and Fifth Element were good but not reference quality, I have to disagree with that too. You see when this titles were released they were considered reference and continued to be for quite some time afterwords. In Fact I believe that ISF as actually put both of these titles on their Reference List.
Now onto personal attacks. I think some of misunderstood the meaning of a Personal attack. A Personal attack is when you are insulting a person based on who they are. It is not a personal attack when you question the opinions and reviews.
For example if I said the Joe Blow was a Dumb ASS that would be a personal attack.
If I said I don't agree with with Joe Blows reviews becuase they don't seem to be accurate to me, that is not a personal attack.
It is very possible to argue with someone without attacking them personallly and only questioning their thoughts and ideas. This is known as debate. You can even have a bunch of respect for the person, even if you don't agree with them. I would like to think that this is what you saw between Ron and I earlier in this thread. I respect Ron a great deal and have been a part of this forum for along time, that does not mean we have to agree on Superbit DVDs.
Now about Ron being above comments on his reviews because he is a member here and an one of the owners. Someone pointed out that Ron does not get paid for his reviews. Maybe not directly but their is some indirect finacial stuff going on. I am sure that he is not paying for the DVDs he reviews. I am sure that a board such as this with the number of advertisers is making him at least some money.
So don't take that to mean that his views are being manipulated by this, because I respect Ron way to much to env suggest that, but I am suggesting that Ron while not quite a professional reviewer, and should be treated as more then some amateur reviewer.
I do agree that comments should try to be insightful and constructive rather then destructive and hateful. I think that without feedback it would be hard for him to grow as a reviewer, and the best feedback he can get is from the people of this forum that read his reviews.
So if you just say I don't like Ron's reviews then you are not really helping in anyway to improve them. If you say here is what I think is good and I don't like the way he does this, then it gives him something to thing over.
Please Remember that Debate can be friendly and does not need to be a flamewar or full of personal attacks
Ron,
About compressing the DVD & Movie Discussion in to single threads, I really kind of see your point but when I look at a thread that is 106 pages deep it just seems so overwelming. 106 Pages, I have read shorter books that a 106 page thread.
Max

 

[Micheal]

First Terrel (And I spelled it right this time Sorry bout before)

Actually..., it's Terrell.

 

[Tom Ryan]

Actually..., it's Terrell.

Yes, but how is it pronounced? I've always wondered, is it "Tear-ull" or "Teh-rell", or perhaps some bizarre version I haven't thought of !?!?

-Tom

 

[Terrell]

We'll just have to disagree on this one Max. I just don't think SuperBit is needed. If studios get it through their thick skulls to do the job right the first time, then we won't need all these so called editions. I see SuperBit as nothing more than an attempt by studios to put out more versions of the same film, resulting in more purchases from the same consumer. It's not needed. Studios are milking this to ridiculous proportions, and it needs to stop. The only reason I have two Superbit DVDs is because I hadn't purchased those titles before. As for quality, look again at T2:UE. It looks as good as any SuperBit I've seen. Also, the Criterion version of The Rock looks as good as any SuperBit I've seen. And the reason is they did it right the first time, whereas the studio that did the original The Rock DVD, did a piss-poor job.

We just have to disagree. I have gotten to a point where I refuse to buy the same title twice. I've done it so often, that I've gotten sick of it. And I see SB serving only this purpose. That's just the way I see it.

 

[Scott Weinberg]

Plus...Pauline Kael is dead.

OK, nasty dark humor. Sorry.

What I don't get is how people will complain about Ron treating the membership to a sneak peek of the mega-big movies.

Tell you guys what: you wanna bash a reviewer? Attack me. I get emails every week telling me what I talentless hack I am. Lay off Ron already.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

This is the BEST quote I have ever heard
regarding Superbit, and I will save
it and forever use it (with the author's
permission and credit) whenever someoned tries
to say Superbit is not a marketing
gimmick...

I won't argue against the fact that CTHV makes themselves look bad by having the SB line. This tells me that they knowingly produce a DVD (prior to the SB version) that doesn't meet the highest quality that they can produce. They have proven with the SB line that this is their highest level of standard definition DVD quality.

Bravo! Exactly my point all along.
As far as criticism of my reviews are
concerned....
I don't care if people criticize me on
our forum. I am used to having my name
scathed all over the internet.
As long as nobody comes to this forum
with the intent of insulting anyone here,
there is no harm done.
As I said, I have a little something to
write in a few days that I will post in the
software area. It pretty much sums
up what it's liked to be an amateur reviewer
and some of the problems I have encountered.
I'm not really writing it other than to
thank those of you who have supported my
reviews.
MAX.....
You and I go back a few years.
You are a friend. You helped me pick out
the Klipsch speakers that sit in my Home
Theater.
I have respect for you, and I know very
well that you meant no disrespect for me.

 

[paul o'donnell]

Well whenever I'm sitting on the fence regarding a DVD purchase Ron's review normally ends up with me spending money. So I can't say I'm a fan at all