Single-layer SACD's stink!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Rachael B, Mar 6, 2003.

  1. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    We've yet to see a Sony hybrid. Now Universal is flooding the market with single-layer discs. Single-layer discs are giving the format a black eye. Consumer confusion abounds and retailers are damned with returns if they dare carry them. People take them home by accident, can't play them and back they go. The largest CD place in this town, besides Busted Buy of course, has minimized it's SACD stock. They decided to carry SACD's but one Sony SACD after another was retuned because people bought them by mistake. Now they stock the Stones and a few hybrids from Rounder & Zoe and maybe a few others...? Sony and Universal are putting retailers in a difficult position.

    Neither Sony or Universal's SACD are well-labeled for the most part. The new Police discs are evidently causing confusion because they're badly labeled and some are mislabeled. When Joe "unknowing" Blow picks up an audio disc and it sez something or other __ CD he thinks he can play it. All the other labels do rather well wth their simple, explicit front stickers. Then, they're all selling hybrids with a few rare exceptions.

    Sony and Universal are hurting the format's chances. That's rather ironic on Sony's part! [​IMG]
     
  2. Seth_S

    Seth_S Second Unit

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    I think the fault lies more with music stores. For instance, my local Tower Records has special SACD section, where all SACD releases all grouped together as well as there being large signs that contain information about the format. You have to be one heck of a putz to walk into that section and take a SACD of the rack thinking it's a regular CD. The problem could also be solved by labels or stores simply putting stickers on SACDs that say "will ONLY play in Super Audio CD players". I seem to recall my local Tower also doing this when they were still shelving SACDs with CDs.
     
  3. Michael St. Clair

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    Rachael,

    I feel exactly the same way. Non-hybrid discs are bad for the CD buyers, and they are a worse value for the rest of us. The flexibility to play an SACD in a car, at work, on the go, at a friend's house, etc is a huge selling point to me.

    $13 Stones hybrids are cool. $20 single-layer discs are lame.

    I thought after CES everything was going to be hybrid, hybrid, hybrid. Doesn't look that way around here. Europe gets better treatment.
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Rachael, I couldn't agree with you more. I have always felt that single-layer discs are a main reason why large chain-stores like Borders and Barnes and Noble are not stocking SACDs. They probably sense the headache that could result with returns of single-layer SACDs. The headache goes something like this:

    Consumer: I'd like to return this disc.

    Employee: Well, you already opened it. We generally do not take back discs once they are opened. Is it defective?

    Consumer: Yes. I put it in my CD player, and it didn't play.

    Employee: Well, this isn't a CD. It's an SACD. You can't play it in a CD player.

    Consumer: A what? What do you mean it isn't a CD? It was on the shelves with the CDs! What are you talking about? I want a refund!

    Notice that Borders and Barnes and Noble have the Stones hybrids, and I have seen the Mike Oldfield Tubular Bells hybrid SACD at Borders since its release (the first SACD I saw there). Borders also sells DVD-Audio discs, all of which are backwards-compatible. The same can be said for many stores.


    Michael said:

     
  5. John Tillman

    John Tillman Supporting Actor

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    The new batch of Police discs don't make sense to me. I like my DTS of the classics but wanted hybrids of albums for portability. I gave a new Redbook cd of Ghost in the Machine a spin but didn't think much of it. So I walk away unhappy.
     
  6. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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  7. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  8. Dan Joy

    Dan Joy Supporting Actor

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    GRRRRRR! Oh this is a ranting peeve of mine as well! Hybrids mean I can burn copies for self to play in car and discman so I don't scratch originals. I don't download music anymore so I cannot get cd versions of some of my favorite sacds[​IMG] (like RYAN ADAMS GOLD). This sucks. I keep saying I won't buy another single layer, but I do. Oh, if there was some one and some where to displace all this verbal aggression to at Sony,,,, never mind[​IMG] And yes, I feel it is both the responsibility of the record companies and the seller (Busted Buy) to put a universal sticker bright orange that says:

    "unless you have a SACD player, which we don't sell in our store, this disc will not play. Yes knucklehead, do not put this in your dvd player, or your car, or your boombox. why do we make these discs?, well because people buy them!

    Sorry, I feel much better now![​IMG]
     
  9. TomCW

    TomCW Second Unit

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    I much prefer hybrids... and so do my friends, cuz when I replace a CD with a hybrid SACD I pass the CD along to somebody. If it's a single layer I keep the CD for the truck.
    Tom
    NP Mark Selby - Desire
     
  10. Danny Tse

    Danny Tse Producer

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    I also do not understand what's going on with Universal . This is just from personal experience dealing with those HK SACDs....they are all hybrids. All HK Universal SACDs are hybrids, same with HK BMG releases. Until recently, both HK Sony and HK Warner Bros. released SACDs, but only on single-layer SACDs. At least they include a redbook CD of the same songs for auto or portable applications. Rumor has it that HK Sony is set to release hybrid SACDs in April 2003. And HK Warner Bros. already released 2 hybrid SACDs ( one of them in multi-channel).

    So what gives? I agree with everyone else that hybrid SACDs is the way to go for expanding hi-res. Even with limited production capability for hybrid discs, I would think the Police catalog will be a bigger seller than most other titles.
     
  11. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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  12. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Lance, they are distinctive but they gobble space. I own about 20 DVD-A's & DAD's. I would like them a bit shorter if I ruled the world like everybody wants to, of course.[​IMG]

    A rant a day keeps the blues away!

    Tom are you engaged in illegal giving and "unauthorized lending"? I love reading disclaimers if the print is big enough...[​IMG]

    BTW, If one has a CD, DAT, or MD recorder with a good analog section SACD is the best source ever for home recording. I haven't tried same with the DVD-A's that I have that have stereo tracks, but there should be a parallel there. "Secure format" (s) my ....[​IMG] Home DSD recorders, nah..... I wish!
     
  13. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    At least Sony is slated to release Bob Dylan hybrids later this year. That's O.K. They will probably come in digipaks. [​IMG]
     
  14. TomCW

    TomCW Second Unit

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    Rachel said:
     
  15. MattCPT

    MattCPT Stunt Coordinator

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    I have stopped buying single layer stereo SACDs altogether. I will not have my only copy of a favorite artist be unplayable in my car, computer, Walkman. Nor will I buy a single layer SACD to compliment an existing cd. I don't find this to be a good value to me, I love music but I don't appreciate how Sony and Universal are releasing a product with limited use just to drain me of my funds so they can release the same product in the future with a multichannel of hybrid layer. I'd rather be without.

    I have bought mostly hybrid multichannel SACDs and some multichannel SACDs. I for one find the multichannel layer of many SACDs to be a major plus. I can always listen to the stereo version, but I find I listen to the multichannel more often. I'm far from alone on this view point. If Sony and Universal ever want to gain acceptance then I believe that they will need to focus on multichannel hybrids.

    I have had more than one salesperson at BB and Brandsmart try to TALK ME OUT OF BUYING a SACD because they said that they thought that they were all multichannel and all playable on a cd player before they started getting returns from customers. Now they don't think that they are a good value and can't recommend purchasing them. I realize that this is the opinion of a few uniformed salespeople, but I can see how the average "Joe" that looks into the format may come away either confused of turned off by the fact that the product isn't consistent in its value. I for one am turned off by the fact that their is so many titles that I would have bought but their not multichannel or hybrid.
     
  16. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Matt, I have quit a few times myself.[​IMG]
     
  17. KrisM

    KrisM Second Unit

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    Its great that Sony will eventually wake up and do hybrids, but have they mentioned anything about pricing? It would be great if all their discs are single-inventory hybrids, but at the prices they are selling at(at my stores at least), it won't matter. Nobody is going to buy a Bob Dylan hybrid for the CD layer when it is selling for $30CDN. Especially when alot of stores have been selling the current Dylan discs at cheap prices, between $7 and $13CDN for the older titles.
    I think hybrids are the way to go, but for me at this point I don't really care. I burn all of my SACDs to CD for portable use. This goes for single layer and hybrids, since hybrids don't work on my truck cd player anyway(which is a SONY ES model by the way).


    Regards
    KrisM
     
  18. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Kris, we're all tired of Sony's baloney, eh?[​IMG] ....and Universal's too! Single-layer sux and retards the format. Are the CD's you're making off SACD better than commercial in your estimation? I'm really pleased with the MD's and CD's I have made off my SACD's. I'm certain I can make better CD's than I can buy off SACD's and records too for that matter. Best wishes![​IMG]
     
  19. KrisM

    KrisM Second Unit

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    Rachael,
    I'm tired of Universal's baloney as well, but at least their baloney is more affordable than Sony's.[​IMG]
    I haven't actually done a serious listen to the SACDs that I have burned because I don't own alot of SACDs that I also own on CD as well.
    The only place I use them is in my truck system and on a discman when I take longer trips(which is rare these days), so quality isn't a really big issue.
    I am currently without a burner right now, but I should have a new one soon due to a warranty replacement.
    One disc I plan on doing a comparison with is Coltrane's A Love Supreme. I have the SACD and the CD that came out about 7 years ago. The SACD sounds alot better to my ears and I'm curious if a burned CD will sound better than the older version.

    Regards
    KrisM
     

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