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Since WB went BluRay Exclusive, Any SD Fans Going Over? (1 Viewer)

Simon Howson

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I think I'll get a PlayStation 3 when they are AUD$350 - $400, i.e. about half the current price.

Hopefully that is by late this year.

I'm much more interested in buying into a HD format now that it looks like the format war is over. It didn't bother me which format won, just as long as there was only one format left standing, by the middle of this year that looks to be Blu-Ray.
 

Jason Seaver

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Actually, I suspect that while the studios would rather have two formats than three, they'd also rather have two than one. Having DVD means they can price BD (or HD-DVD; BD has declared victory so many times without actually winning that I still wouldn't be shocked if HD finds some way to stick around) as a premium or semi-premium product for a while.
 

Randy Korstick

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VHS and Laserdisc owners said the same thing when the same statements were made about DVD eventually taking over back in 1997 and both of those formats were at an all time sales high for their respective formats and where are both of those formats today?
HD TV's are continuing to decrease in price and more and more are being sold and when nearly everyone has an HD set they will want HD material to play on them which will lead to a steady decline in SD DVD sales.
 

Andrew Radke

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Well, it's taken about 7 years to build a DVD collection of over 600 titles after getting rid of my VHS collection of over 900 titles. I really don't want to start the rebuilding process again! I own a hi-def TV and pay for HD programming. Admittedly, it looks stunning. Watching a Leafs game in Hi-def is the next best thing to being there. That being said, I'm more than content with my DVD collection. Although not as stunning as high definition, it suits me just fine. The only way I'll consider changing formats again is when (as others have predicted) there is a decline in the availablility of SD discs. The same reason, in fact, why I switched from VHS to DVD. New movies were harder and harder to get on VHS. I don't have a crystal ball, but frankly, I can't see SD DVD going anywhere for a very long time.
 

Jonathan Kaye

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The difference is that DVD is radically different in design, format and usability than VHS, and the same applies comparing CDs to vinyl records. They were quantum leaps in methods of delivery, with easily-sellable differences. The new, better, formats were also incompatible with the old, so you couldn't play your VHS tapes on your nice new DVD player, meaning that people like me replaced their tapes with discs and stopped buying new tapes.

High definition disks, on the other hand, are an evolution on an existing format, and physically look exactly the same. They're not even an amazingly radical evolution, they're just doing the same job but to a better standard. The new format players are backwards-compatible with DVD, so old (and new) DVDs play at least as well as they would do in DVD players (and possibly better depending on the upscaling).

And, of course, the high definition market is incredibly small compared to DVD. Even if Blu-ray took over tomorrow (which it won't) and the market doubled, tripled, even went up by a factor of five, it would still be much much smaller than the DVD market. Even if huge numbers of DVD buyers switched to buying Blu-rays, the DVD market would still be significant.

Plus, DVD is good enough technology-wise for the TV programmes that can't be remastered to high-definition, and despite what some people think there is no real appetite among the mass market to having entire seasons of standard definition shows on one disk; from what we're told, the perception is that number of disks is a selling point, so putting '5-disc set' on a box sells more copies than putting 'season on a disc'. Consumers have a psychological expectation that you can get a film or a few TV shows on one disc, not a whole season.

For all of the above reasons, DVD will be around for at least the next five to ten years.

As for the original topic, I'm not a 'fan' of SD, but I have ignored high definition disks until I can get one player that plays releases from all studios and does not prevent me from importing foreign discs into the UK. I am no nearer the first proviso (because WB were releasing on Blu-ray anyway), and from what I've read the second proviso may be starting to happen in Europe with multiregion Blu-ray players (but nothing concrete that people have in their hands to confirm), but until then I will be sticking to DVD of non-HD TV shows, and not buying DVDs of films at all to prevent having to replace them all again later.
 

Glenn Overholt

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There is no reason for anyone to double-dip on any title, unless you want it in HD. I am not advocating that anyone trash their SD collection - crap I have about 1600 disks, and they aren't going anywhere. I was going to get Dragon Wars in SD, but I think that I am going to wait on that now.

As for the stores, I was thinking more of the sales clerks always asking which format - before they direct someone to a title. With only format on the shelves, they will have it a little easier.

I know that sales are down right now. Duh! They are down because many people are waiting for the war to end. When the war is over and HD type disk production is stopped, it would be easier for all of the production lines to convert over to BD. Yes, Tosbhiba has to give in officially, and if Warner is the tipping point, I wish that they'd give in now and get it over with.

I agree that the sales will also depend on the titles that are put out. The movie "want" list that I had made up in about 1992 still has over a hundred titles remaining on it.

Ok, maybe I am really hoping that when this friggin' war is over and done with, the studios might get around to putting some of them out!

Glenn
 

Jeff Swindoll

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Upconvert? Yes. Firmware updates? Yes on that one too. Don't want to start the war over again, but this was one way that HD-DVD had one up on Blu in that you COULD hook your player up to your router and do the updates (unless you have a PS3, which connects wirelessly methinks) and it was a pain since my router was too far away to cord, so I'll agree with you on the inconvience. I have a Sony 300 Blu player and it chokes on some menus on PoTC: At World's End. I had to call up Sony and have them send me a firmware update disc since when I tried to burn it from their website I was only making coasters since the player didn't recognize them. The Sony models don't have an ethernet jack (well at least the 300 doesnt). I can't comment on the other brands but I think some of the Panasonic ones do (don't quote me on that). You can download and burn them, but if you're running into problems with the player reading those discs then you have to rely on the manufacturer to send it to you (and I hope it can read the disc they send to me).

Unfortunately, I've sort've seen these days coming since our media machines are getting closer to computers and can be prone to some buggy behavior. I don't recall ever having this problem with VHS ;).

I hope that the firmware update fixes my problem, but won't know till it gets here in snail mail. :frowning:
 

Scott-S

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I have been a fence sitter since this useless format war started. I have also stopped buying sd-dvds. I am with everyone else that didnt want to buy something now and wish I have it on HD later.

Once I can get a Profile 2 BR player, I'll jump in. Even if it is $300.

There are a lot of us that have been putting off getting into the HD media due to this war. I think this is why I keep hearing that the total sales of BR and HD-DVD have been really small compared to SD-Dvds.

Once everyone is conviced the war is truely over, the total sales of HD media will grow much faster than it has been. It will take much more than a year to overtake SD-Dvd, more like 5 or 6, but it will eventually happen.
 

Colin Jacobson

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I mentioned this in my original post: the difference is that the move from vinyl to CD or VHS to DVD was a major change in format. People could easily see substantial reasons to move to a digital disc from a vinyl record or a tape. SD-DVD to BR is just an incremental step up - it's the same thing but simply a little higher quality. It's an evolution, not a revolution, and that's not gonna be enough to sway lots of people, I don't think...
 

Bruce Morrison

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Yes I feel much the same frustration about the current crop of BD players. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I won't take the plunge until there's at least one player that natively decodes DTS HD MA as well as Dolby TrueHD. I hope 2008 will finally see this happen. Although I'm in the UK, I will probably buy a US player in view of the Blu-ray region-coding, as I think the software choice and pricing will always tend to be better in the US (and maybe Japan) than the UK. Also, most of my SD collection is Region 1, so it will be useful to have a second player capable of playing Region 1 DVDs (always assuming multi-region Blu-ray players aren't likely to appear in the foreseeable future).

Some people have said that they would not relish having to rebuild their large DVD collections all over again in Blu-ray. I don't really see it that way - I'll be quite happy for Blu-ray and SD DVD to co-exist in my collection more or less permanently. I have several hundred DVDs, and most of them are not titles that are likely to appear any time soon on Blu-ray - in fact, many of them probably won't be released for many years, if ever. I won't be pining for particular titles to appear on Blu-ray, but I'll be happy to replace titles as and when they do appear.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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I recently made the jump w/ a PS3/40GB thanks to the current $100-back deal (w/ 12-month no interest) w/ a new Sony Visa Card -- must be purchased from a Sony store or their SonyStyle site. If anyone wants to make the jump right now, I'd recommend going that route, particularly if you're budget conscious and don't mind the "stigma" of owning a game conso... errr... media machine. ;) :D Personally, I would not want to touch any of the cheaper available options right now -- though that $100-back deal would work for any $300+ Sony player, not just PS3. The only other similarly priced option I'd consider is the Panny BD30 though you won't benefit from a $100-back deal there, but if you really want a standalone, I'd recommend waiting til the newly announced players come to market before making the jump -- even if you still go w/ that Panny, the price might well drop some more by then. Just know that you aren't likely to find anything to beat the PS3 in the same ballpark pricewise -- and that's besides what else the PS3 can do.

For me, I decided to make the jump partly because there seems to be enough titles being released that I would want in HD instead of SD -- and I don't want to double-dip later. The new Blader Runner set, in particularly, helped nudged me over. And of course, the recent BOGO deals also helped as I was able to replace some titles cheaply quickly (as well as picking up a few relatively recent releases that I didn't get around to buy in SD). Seems like some studios -- well, Disney anyway -- might be looking at offering SD-to-HD upgrade rebates/coupons, eg. $10 rebate for The Rock, Con Air, Crimson Tide, $10 coupon for PotC 3 (inside the SD version), though no idea how prevalent that will be. But yeah, I don't really plan to replace all my SD DVDs, and will probably still continue to buy some titles in SD (and maybe rent a little more often).

FYI, I'm also not as bullish on HD completely replacing SD as some folks and can certainly see good likelihood that the market will eventually just be 50/50 HD/SD or something like that before some next big thing comes along 10-15 years from now -- unless of course, we're eventually forced to only have HD, which can certainly happen at some point. But yeah, it could easily take anywhere from 3 to 5 years (if not more) to get to that 50/50 mark (and when SD might get phased completely). I think though if you actually want HD, you shouldn't just wait til there's major market penetration before jumping. Jump in when you're good and ready and see that titles you want in HD are being released -- or if your SD player dies and an HD player falls in your range anyway. That could be now, next year, in 3-5 years or possibly never (though that last case seems highly unlikely for an HTFer :D). Player prices will come down, but if you want a good, full featured $200 player, I don't think you'll see one until the 2009 holiday season at the earliest. I'd rather spend the extra on the PS3 now (assuming there are titles you want) and start enjoying HD and have less double-dipping to do later...

_Man_
 

Jay E

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One other thing...as (or was) being a owner of over 1,500 Lasers, I welcomed the entry of DVD into the market as I wasn't entirely happy with the laser format (the high number of defective discs, lots of speckling and laser rot being the main problems). Even during the years of heavy laser buying, I was hoping another format would come around to replace it.

The difference now is I am entirely happy with DVDs, and have never given a thought to a new format. I think that average consumer is also pretty happy with DVDs which will make it much harder for HD to make inroads like DVD did.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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I would agree that DVD is a quantum leap over VHS that BD is not (over DVD) due to the fundamental differences in the nature of the media, eg. convenience advantages. However, I don't think it's quite accurate to say BD is only "simply a little higher quality". If you have a display that's not natively 1080p (or is very poorly set up) or a display-to-viewing-distance ratio that's signficantly smaller than 1-to-2, then I agree that the quality upgrade is small (or possibly not noticeable at all). I would think most (if not quite all) film fans would meet the criteria to see a substantial quality improvement that can match the quality jump from VHS to DVD though there will be some variance due to nature of the source content as well as the viewer's perception of quality. But yeah, for the average consumer, some of the criteria might not be met to high enough degree to convince everyone to upgrade (unless/until SD gets phased out at some point).

Remember, VHS didn't look that bad on a small 4x3 TV from a good distance either. And when people upgraded to much bigger displays after spending time w/ DVD on smaller displays, there were lots of complaints about the PQ going south big time. The display-to-viewing-distance ratio is a big factor -- and of course, so is the quality of the particular source content.

_Man_
 

Don Solosan

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"While I'm inclined to agree with you, I have to play Devil's Advocate for a moment here to remind you that this was the exact same argument I heard against music CDs ("too many record and turntable owners") and SD ("too many VCR and VHS owners"), but then SD and CD did, in fact, take over."

The record companies helped you make up your mind about switching formats. It used to be that record stores bought albums and whatever didn't sell could be returned for credit. After CDs came out, the record companies changed the rules: stores could buy vinyl, but not return it. Suddenly carrying vinyl was a very expensive proposition for an average store, and they migrated to stocking CDs. When you walked in the store looking for the latest Rolling Stone album or whatever, your mind had already been made up for you. Buy a CD, or go without.

A scenario for replacing SD might go something like this: get BR player prices down, start phasing out SD players, then start reducing the number of SD discs that are released. It would have to be done over the course of a few years, with people replacing their SD players as they break down. At no point in this process does anyone have to replace their collection, as Colin fears. But once people start seeing both SD and HD material, the SD will look bad by comparison and they will migrate to HD.

There are, of course, still people out there enjoying their collections of vinyl albums and VHS tapes, but the marketplace no longer caters to them. Consumers can be channeled away from SD.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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One other thing about SD sticking around for a long time. There's a lot of talk about downloads/VOD potentially taking over that segment of the market. So it could very well be that we eventually see BD (or whatever HD media) + downloads/VOD replacing SD DVD. Afterall, the average consumer who doesn't care enough about quality (and possibly OAR) could probably be easily enticed by downloads/VOD -- and very many of them probably don't care for collecting physical media either. Also, the studios probably would love to take over the rental market w/ downloads/VOD too.

_Man_
 

Christopher B

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I have about 650 DVDs in my collection and about 20 BDs. I bought a PS3 for both the PS3 games, and the backwards capability for PS2 games, and the Blu-ray player. I have no intention of getting rid of, or replacing, my SD titles. I have a LOT of PAL and different region DVDs that will probably never be out on Blu-ray or play on my PS3.

The Blu-ray DVDs look amazing, but my SD DVDs still look pretty good up-converted. There are probably a few movies that I have on a SD DVD that I would love to have on HD, mostly older catalog films, but I don't feel the need to replace everything. Since making the jump to Blu-ray I find that a BD is my first choice on new titles, but it has not stopped my SD purchases on older or non-mainstream titles.

It is interesting that people mentioned NOT buying any new SD DVDs for a while. This is one of the reasons that Warner has said they made the move to go exclusive. They said that the format war was actually effecting SD DVD sales. People who are on the fence and not buying HD or BD are also not buying SD since they are planning to be buying HDM in the future.
 

JoshuaB.

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I'm closer to buying a BR player, but I agree with a lot of posters who say that BR is only a minor improvement from SD DVD compared to previous format changes. I still buy a lot of TV-on-DVD, Criterions and older movies on SD DVD, so I'm in no hurry to upgrade. I'd probably buy contemporary films that would benefit from BD, but I'm definitely not replacing my 800+ SD DVD collection.
 

Jeff F.

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I purchased a 52" Sony HDTV a couple of months ago, and truth be told, I'm been very impressed with how beautiful an upconverted S-DVD looks on this screen. That being said, if BD hardware and software prices take a dramatic drop in price, I would most likely buy into it. But I'm not in a hurry.
 

LCD22

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I'm definitely going Blu-ray, but I'm not going to stop buying SDs. I'll take each title on a case-by-case basis, which I usually do anyway, and if there's a HD counterpart, I'll compare the transfers, extras with the SD one.
 

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