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Signing the back of a credit card...double-edged sword?

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by Dome Vongvises, Dec 4, 2004.

  1. Dome Vongvises

    Dome Vongvises Lead Actor

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    Same amount of hassle? Again, you got to be kidding me.

    Writing check = DOB, numerical amount, written amount, date, signature, matching name with picture I.D. with face, name of person/body receiving check

    vs.

    CC = sign receipt, matching CC name with face and name on I.D.

    And true fraud prevention? Again, I submit the Visa Basics which are the tools I'm technically supposed to use. And yes, I actually do do this and trust me I'm not convinced most of them really work.

    These are the tools to fraud prevention

    I would like to emphasize the 1. Check the signatures to see if they match (and trust me, I've seen only two that reasonbly match, 2. make them sign the card if back is left blank, and 3. make people sign their cards if See I.D. is on the back. Now by Merchant Agreement, a consumer has not followed their own steps to a valid card, and I do no accept the card. So which side of the ball should I play on?
     
  2. Dome Vongvises

    Dome Vongvises Lead Actor

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    I definitely think the word mental applies in this situation although I believe more along the lines of "Are you mental" in Wayne's World fashion.

    Security guards at Caesar's in Indiana, who are supposed to know the difference between a fake and real I.D., had a really hard time with my I.D. Kentucky state driver's license have changed, and mine doesn't expire until 2005 where I can get the new one. The old ones were easy to fake. I'm standing in line stuck at the turnstiles with people looking at me funny. Why should I feel insulted? I haven't done anything wrong, but I'm standing there not allowed to go on the boat to join my friends. And there are five or six people looking at me. I even offered to call Kentucky State Police to offer assistance.

    I'm a regular at Liquor Barn (don't take that the wrong way), and I get sad when they don't check I.D.s (even when the cashier is new). But when they do, they all say I look like some 16 year old high school kid (I'm 24 freakin' years OLD). So am I supposed to get insulted because people think I'm some little immature 16 year old trying to buy liquor for his buddies. I hope every alcohol vendor checks my I.D.

    I understand in those cases there's a definite need for asking for I.D., but I think Seth was just making the point that asking for I.D. in general is insulting. I don't see why. Insulting to ask for I.D.? Not buying that one either.
     
  3. Dome Vongvises

    Dome Vongvises Lead Actor

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    I'm fat, I'm Asian, and I speak with a hick accent. I wouldn't trust me either.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Seth--L

    Seth--L Screenwriter

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    You're comparing apples and oranges. Going to a bar or casino, where it is law to card people, is a hell of a lot different than asking for ID when buying a DVD at Best Buy.
     
  5. Andy_G

    Andy_G Stunt Coordinator

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    Dome, this isn't about other people, it's about what you're doing. And frankly, leaving all of your accusations of laziness aside, what you're doing isn't allowed.
     
  6. Leila Dougan

    Leila Dougan Screenwriter

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    Again, a master of twising words. Where did I say "true"? I said their measures help curb fraud. It's a fact, they do, even if just a little. Could they do more to prevent fraud? Sure. But that's not the point. They've also devised their policy so that IF you follow all the rules, the merchant is not liable. So at that point, who cares if you think it makes any difference or not? No skin off your back.

    Look, it's all a game. Visa and Mastercard have to delicately balance their interests, the merchants interest, and the interest of the customers. This magic formula they've come up with has been masterfully crafted to catch a fair number of fraudulent transactions while still maintaining convenience for the customer.

    Don't like it? Why not take your crusade to Visa and Mastercard instead. You can lobby to them why they should change their policy. But until you do, this vigilantism has got to go.

    Quite frankly I'm not sure why you feel this is your cross to bear. Visa/Mastercard's policy evidently doesn't bother them, otherwise they'd have changed it by now. It obviously doesn't bother the merchants either, otherwise they'd have stopped doing business with Visa and Mastercard. You don't pay for stolen merchandise out of your paycheck, so what's the big deal? Let Best Buy give merchandise away for free via fraudulant transactions if they desire, it's their money afterall.
     
  7. Jason Harbaugh

    Jason Harbaugh Cinematographer

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    I recently helped in making a promotional/investor video for this company, BSI2000 which makes an optical ID card. This is military grade security and technology built with the flexibility of easily becoming the next Driver's License, Passport or credit card.

    Best thing is that it is biometric. It reads your fingerprint, and matches it to the one encrypted on the card. If it matches, all your info comes up, picture address, clearance etc. If it doesn't match, well then that's not your card. The info is stored on the card so there isn't a need for a central database. Stores just need the card reader, similar to current credit card readers, but a little more robust, then you get your card made at the bank. They could probably make it so your whole family could use the card and have their prints stored on it as well.

    Something like that would remove all doubt for the merchant and we wouldn't have to go through the steps of the junior detectives everytime we want to buy a dvd.

    Heck it could be incorporated into online buying as well. Get a fingerprint scanner for your computer, use the card online, without fear of your number getting stolen and used. And if someone really did want to steal your card they wouldn't be able to just chop off your finger, ala movies like The 6th Day. The readers ask for a random finger on either hand. And if that isn't secure enough, they do retinal as well. (oops, almost typed rectal. Now that isn't something I want to be doing at Best Buy. [​IMG] )

    I could see something like this being the next big thing, but I could also see it as becoming another technology that never gets accepted.

    Sorry for the quasi-off-topic post. :b
     
  8. Andy_G

    Andy_G Stunt Coordinator

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    And Visa/Mastercard will, among other things, be interested in the capital costs of your product. If it's greater than the projected cost of fraud, then they're unlikely to be interested.

    Mumble something to the government about terrorism though, and you could suddenly have a large order. We should see what this new bill said about DL standards.
     
  9. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    If my credit card is stolen, I cancel the stolen number and get a new number. If my fingerprints are stolen, I chop off my old fingers and get new ones...

    I'd rather not have a biometric IDs where theft is an concern.
     
  10. Jason Harbaugh

    Jason Harbaugh Cinematographer

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    Cost is surprisingly low. And you are right about the government and terrorism. Their card was first developed for the Homeland Security Department, among other military operations.

    Right now from what I know, the card readers are around $2000 each. Surely would go down in mass production. The cards themselves are around a buck a piece. Again, mass produced would get them down the price of a blank cd-r.

    I know right now their focus is on security clearance cards and ID cards. I believe Canada even uses it as their national green card. I have no idea if they ever looked at the credit card industry. This does have me intrigued though. A quick google search showed that the estimated cost to credit card companies/merchants/card holders each year due to fraud is around $500million.

    Potential perhaps?

    edit:
    Ahh come on Dave, they can clone you knew fingers in a few days now. [​IMG]
     
  11. Chris Lockwood

    Chris Lockwood Producer

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    > Going to a bar or casino, where it is law to card people

    Nope. There's no law that they have to card you going in. I doubt there's even a law that they have to check ID for buying alcohol. It just says they can't sell it if you are underage.

    I've been in casinos where you could walk right in, start playing slots or whatever, no ID needed. Have you ever been in one? Doesn't sound like it?


    > Why is it some colleges (like one of mine did) use your SS number as your school ID number?

    Because they know SSNs are unique & that everyone has one, so it's a lazy way of having a unique identifier. I don't agree with that use of it. Remember the old SS cards that said "not to be used for identification"?


    > If a card is not signed, I'd have a pair of scissors handy and give it a good whack.

    I'd love to see that, because if you try that with me, your store will look like someone drove a car into it, once I get done breaking stuff.


    I don't know where some cashiers get off on asking for ID. It's only happened to me a few times, including yesterday at a WalMart where I was only buying about $50 worth of stuff. She claimed it was store policy, so I gave her the line about the merchant agreement, which went right over her head. I know she was lying since I've never been asked for ID in their stores before, even for bigger purchases.

    Also got carded once when spending about $9 at a fast food place. Hmmm, if I had just stolen someone's card, wouldn't I be buying something more valuable than that with it? How come I can buy $30 worth of gas at the pump with no other person involved, yet some kid wants ID for food? And this weekend I made a $1000 purchase at a seminar, no ID requested, even though the item will have to be shipped to me.
     
  12. BobV

    BobV Second Unit

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    In reply to Win Joy Jr...


    Yes, I'm willing to take that risk for the same reason you are so adimant against showing your ID. FOR MY PROTECTION, and I type that with a heavy firm hand. No one, and nothing else, is protecting me, so that little bitty thing that I do is for my perceived security.

    Let me pose a question back. Your issue with this 'mom and pop' store... was it worth it? Now that you have single-handedly most likely ruined this family's business, possibly putting them out of business, maybe losing their home... I have no idea how far the implications of your actions reached... does it feel good? On such a truly menial , not much more than discomfort with your 'rights', issue would it had not just been simpler to walk out, never purchase there again, and share your story with your friends so that they never purchase from them again either, rather than so harshly assert yourself and severely damage this family? What if their story was your story? (these are rhetorical, I don't expect an answer)
     
  13. Dome Vongvises

    Dome Vongvises Lead Actor

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    I'm hardly put any effort into this, and this isn't a cross to bear. Quite frankly, I make this point because it's something that people really need to be aware of. And it's fairly obvious that Visa/Mastercard/AMEX/Discover aren't bothered by their own policies. They made it. But to say that it doesn't bother merchants wouldn't be accurate either.

    I care not because I work but because I'm a consumer as well. It's fairly obvious that both sides of the ball aren't working hard at all to help with this matter. And it doesn't help that for every ten/twenty customers that do take that extra step to protect themselves there's always that one or two that make things difficult.

    I make it an effort to read Best Buy Sucks and any thread where people complain about Best Buy (e.g. Vince's thread). It helps me to work harder and know what it is people like and don't like.

    But this isn't my career. I'm waiting and abiding my time to get back into school. It's only a job to earn some money to help pay the bills. But it doesn't excuse me from not working hard and trying my best. And if my regulars and other customers feel much better that I'm checking I.D. and doing all I can, than I'd rather have their satisfaction.

    And I'm helping fight the OAR battle as well. I can't imagine how many full screen copies I've turned away (still haven't run into that Stanley Kubrick conundrum yet) [​IMG]
     
  14. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    this thread has run full circle, but i'll pitch in my nickel.

    i'm pretty much with dome on this. i also cashier at bb in the ht dept. i've rung up 10-15k sales. am i going to ask for id? you freakin' bet! with fraud so rampant, i don't see any harm what-so-ever. i have yet to have a single customer complain -- many of them actually thank me for asking. i'm willing to bet that most customers aren't even aware of the merchant agreement thing. if the customer doesn't want to show me id, then i'm *definitely* going to get my manager. i'll leave it up to him to make the call.

    the cashier isn't trying to be hostile or a pita. they're just trying to protect everyones interests.

    ---

    does anyone here really think visa/mc/whoever will terminate their agreement with a huge company like bb? i would think it will take a monster serious offense for that to happen.

    ---

    as far as that cid thing goes, i think that's more for online fraud then anything else. the idea is if you have the cc number, but not the cid, then you can't make any purchases where all you need is the number (mailorder, online, etc.)

    ---

    finally, and most importantly, why is christ reynolds typing in lower case? that's my move! [​IMG]
     
  15. Christ Reynolds

    Christ Reynolds Producer

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    what it says (either on the ticket itself or on ticketmaster's website) is that you are subject to all arena policies by purchasing this ticket. don't think for a minute that you did not sign or agree to something that allows them to search you and they are doing it without your consent. you did, but you probably did not read the agreement. i skip past them too. but it is in there, you are not getting screwed. what if the security guards wanted to see your genitals while searching you? after all, it would be easier than working hard on the job, studying for class, being fiscally responsible...

    CJ
     
  16. Christ Reynolds

    Christ Reynolds Producer

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    haha i never noticed you did that too. most importantly is right! you're going down, the ted!

    CJ
     
  17. StephenHa

    StephenHa Second Unit

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    I have a policy now (since getting hit with a charge back) I make an imprint of each card, master card told me if I had the imprint to prove the card was in my possession they would cover it under their insurance. If you have issues showing id when asked (in a kind and reasonable manner) then you have something to hide, I ask when I am not sure of the transaction being valid (go ahead and report that the issuer always calls and asks and it's explained to them) if you have a problem with security use cash. Also if you give your card to your kid to get some books for college you violated your user agreement
     
  18. Neil J

    Neil J Stunt Coordinator

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    How is it an inconvience to show your id? Takes all of 5 seconds. Anyways as a "lowly" cashier I only ask for identification if the customer specifies it on the card or if I can't read the signature. Can't believe I read 20 posts of this thread.
     
  19. Chris Lockwood

    Chris Lockwood Producer

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    > If you have issues showing id when asked (in a kind and reasonable manner) then you have something to hide

    I love how you twist your violation of your account agreement into being the customer's fault.

    Next time some punk cashier asks for my ID for this purpose I will ask for their ID.
     
  20. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    [​IMG]

    i guess we could start calling you "the christ", but i think that would take a whole different spin. heck, i think you'd get banned by default!
     

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