Siblance- An Amp Thing Or A Receiver Thing Or A Preamp Thing

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Yogi, Jul 26, 2002.

  1. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    Where does siblance originate from? One source I know is amps with excessive global negative feedback are sibilant could the preamp or the speakers also be responsibe for exceessive siblance. If so can it be addressed with a change of speakers and/or preamps?
     
  2. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    no one to shed some light on this?
     
  3. Ron Alcasid

    Ron Alcasid Stunt Coordinator

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    I think sibliance originates during the recording process but can be accentuated by speaker characteristics, electronics and room reflections during playback. Just my 2 cents.
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    I agree with Ron. Often times, sibilance is inherent to the recording. However, it is true that some amps and speakers can enhance the reduce or effect.
     
  5. James Bergeron

    James Bergeron Supporting Actor

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    Hmm, I don't know the answer either, BUT I do know that with my Denon 4800 & JBL N series speakers Coyote Ugly had some of the most annoying siblance EVER, it was crazy. But when I changed speakers this was gone.
     
  6. Steve Zimmerman

    Steve Zimmerman Second Unit

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    I would surmise that unless you have something miswired then 99 times out of a hundred, sibiliance is caused by (1) the recording, (2) the room acoustics, or (3) the speakers.

    The effect of the amp, preamp, cables, interconnects, power cord, shakra stones, ultraclarifiers, etc are miniscule compared to those three.

    --Steve
     
  7. John Dunlap

    John Dunlap Stunt Coordinator

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    LOL at Shakra Stones!!! That's about the only tweak I have'nt tried at this point.

    I think Steve's explanation is right on. I have found that the same source material has sounded sibilant with different amps, interconnects, speaker wire, even with those stupid AH! Noisekiller things. The things that have been constant is the source component (DVD PLayer) and of course the room acoustics, which in my present setup are horrible.
     
  8. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    It's really such a difficult question to answer as there are generally several possibilities. while good ideas and possibilities have been suggested, I think a bit more information from you is needed.
    When did you first notice it?
    What changes to your room or equipment have you made? That might suggest a narrowing down of the possibilities.
     
  9. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    The first I noticed this was during Harry Potter. I have a 3802 with the main L/R channels handled by a Proceed BPA2. The BPA really projects an immense soundfield extending way beyond the speakers both in depth and width. I have Vienna acoustic mozarts as my main L/R and DIY speakers for the center SR and SL. I dont have a rear center. I've always felt (since I added the BPA to my system) that my front sound field is not blending very well due to the DIY centerchannel and the 3802's handling of it. So during the movie I just turned off the center channel and directed the whole front soundfield to the main L/R. Immediately I started noticing pronounced siblance. It kind of started bugging me. I felt that the 3802 was doing a better job on the center channel with less siblance. This was kind of distressing as I paid about twice the price for the BPA2 than I did for the 3802. I tried other movies and althought not as pronounced as HP there was siblance nevertheless.
    Could it be that the BPA is more detailed with more top end air than the 3802 and as a result of this its bringing out the siblance (present in the mastering) even more. During music I like the naturalness of the BPA2 as it sounds lifelike. I can hear the artist breathing between lines on some of the recordings that I never noticed with the 3802. Its almost like I have the artist performing live for me. But during movies I like the 3802's handling of the center channel and that to me is bothersome.
    Could the Viennas be brighter than the DIY speakers (both have silk dome tweeters) or could the 3802 be warmer than the Proceed (which I think is considered neutral). I would really love to have the Proceed handle the whole front soundstage (by turning off the center channel in the setup) because I like its imaging and soundstaging not to mention its tight bass (made my Velodyne the weak link in the bass department).
    Any thoughts about how I could do this (change cables, install stones underneath the speakers[​IMG] etc.) would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks everyone.
     
  10. Ron Alcasid

    Ron Alcasid Stunt Coordinator

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    Did you try Cinema ReEQ? Many DVD transfers use the original theater mix which boost the high frequencies to compensate for the large venue. However, more and more DVDs are remixed for home theater.
     
  11. John Dunlap

    John Dunlap Stunt Coordinator

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    Yogi,

    First of all, IMO Vienna speakers are definitely NOT bright. They use silk dome tweeters which, as a rule sound a little less harsh than most metal dome tweeters. I think that most people make the comment about Denon receivers being warm because they have a rolled off top end. They are quite a bit LESS revealing than quality amps like your Proceed.

    There is a product called the AH! Noisekiller that is available from Upscaleaudio.com. This product is supposed to reduce tweeter ringing on systems that are exceptionally revealing (or bright). They cost $25. I just bought 3 for my Paradigm Reference system. My perception is that they made a very subtle, barely noticeable difference in the sibilance I was hearing. But if you're feeling adventurous you can try that.

    Otherwise, I think that you need to get used to the idea that much of what your hearing is imperfections in the source material. On well mixed and recorded CD's and DVD's I'm sure your system sounds phenomenal!!
     
  12. Yoon Lee

    Yoon Lee Stunt Coordinator

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    So, Denon 3802 cannot be the cause of siblance?
     
  13. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I'd say unlikely to focus on either the denon or madrigal amps. while i don't necessarily see the diy rears as a bad idea, i'd be suspicious in general of the diy center. it'd be my bet, after you've ruled out the other issues that've been raised, that's where you're likely to have problems. Speaking only for myself, i like to keep the center part of the same family. Try disconnecting it and run a phanthom center and see if that's any better (it's likely to be different!).
     
  14. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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  15. Scott Oliver

    Scott Oliver Screenwriter

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    My guess in your situation is 1) The Denon's processing for doing a phantom center could be at fault 2) more likely it is just the higher resolution of the amp and speakers that is bringing out the worst in the DVD's inherent recording weaknesses. Cinema RE-EQ could possibly help tame the sibilance.
    At what parts of movie is the sibilance occurring action, talking, etc.?

    Also just to prove that it can be the preamp causing it. A couple weeks back the local HTF group did some blind-testing between four processors on threee DVD scenes. Only one of the four did not produce sibilance on some fighting scenes in the Fifth Element super-bit - Blue Diva singing chapter.
     
  16. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    The siblance was only during the talking scenes.
     
  17. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    and if you were to just run the denon to the fronts using its amps what is it that happens? Funny though, I didn't notice any sibilance when reading the book [​IMG]
     
  18. Rick Guynn

    Rick Guynn Second Unit

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    This may sound odd, but try running your center off of the big amp and see if you still notice the sibilance.

    I have a similar situation with my receiver. For a long time I thought it was my speakers, but I am now conviced it is my receiver and it's processing causing the problem. Unfortunately I do not have any friends nearby that I can borrow a receiver from to test this theory out.

    RG
     
  19. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    must be a damned good movie though, huh!
     
  20. Yoon Lee

    Yoon Lee Stunt Coordinator

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    I've been having similar concern with sibilance on music. I thought it was Sony CD player, but my replacement Rotel CD player that cost me twice as much didn't do much on the issue. So, I suspected maybe it's my Denon, but even analog input with Direct Mode, which's supposed to completely by pass Denon's DAC, didn't do the magic... Now, I'm just thinking it's recording and speaker (B&W 7NT). Since I like my B&W otherwise, I don't think I can do much about it other than getting used to it. [​IMG]
     

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