shows that have been destroyed

Mark Y

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I'd be curious to know if any of these shows still exist (beyond home taped stuff):

The Hot Fudge Show

Take Five With Stiller And Meara

Marlo And The Magic Movie Machine
 

Neil Brock

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It's the OTHER stuff that worried me - "Life of Riley" who the heck has that, or is storing it's masters? (I know Tgg released the Gleason episodes - but they were edited,and I'm not 100% sure they were legit licensed) That's got to be the only MAJOR 1950's comedy series that hasn't seen the light of day in decades.

"My Little Margie" is in the public domain - what the heck happened to the master elements? (same with other shows Roland Reed was involved in.) ROCKY JONES - SPACE RANGER (Roland Reed was involved in that,too) - where are the negatives of the TV and Feature length elements? As far as the original 39-episodes, none are "lost", and have been in private hands for years, but some of the features-compilations seem to have gone missing.

That is what worried me - the shows that don't have a major studio or rights holder safely storing elements. Look at what happened to stuff like FLASH GORDON, TERRY & THE PIRATES (although we've heard about elements being found, including the missing 2 episodes only to have them thrown out when the person died) , DICK TRACY, even series as recent as the 1968 CBS BLONDIE series is missing - CBS doesn't have it, Universal doesn't have it, King Features doesn't have it It, Kayro Productions doesn't exist anymore (KFS do have the master elements on the films and the 1957 TV series which got a DVD release) (Yes, i'm using comic strip related shows as an example)

The BLONDIE hurts the most as Bruce Lee guest stared in the final episode - the only American TV appearance he made that doesn't exist - and if Bruce Lee researchers over the years couldn't find it - and trust me they have looked and look - filmmakers and documentary makers - those who would have access to such places others don't - then it really is gone.
Life of Riley wound up with Fox, although as clueless as they are with their properties, they probably don't know it. When they syndicated it in the 80s, they only had 91 shows in the package while 219 were made.

UCLA has copies of all 18 Terry and the Pirates episodes.

AFAIK, Blondie is with Universal and I've no reason to believe otherwise. Just because people have looked for the Bruce Lee episode, doesn't mean they looked there or that they had the money to pay Universal's costs to transfer a 35mm negative.

I know who has all of the My Little Margie episodes, complete and uncut on one inch tape. Not sure where the 35mm negatives reside, although at one point the show was owned by Ziv International (not the same as Fred Ziv's company from the 50s that he sold to UA). That company wound up getting bought out by Warner, so it wouldn't surprise me if the negatives ended up there.

And by the way, if you look up some of these shows on the LOC website, you'll see that many of the ones we assume are PD and that are treated as such, aren't, but instead are "orphaned" shows, which did have copyrights that were renewed but the people who owned them died or the companies that did went out of business.
 

MatthewA

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Heck, Rhino has done a BETTER job with THE MONKEES master elements than Screen Gems/Columbia Pictures TV ever did. I'll give you an example - the prints transferred for broadcast in the 1980's - the ones that MTV aired and were in the ones that replaced the old 16mm prints in syndication - Songs from Repeat airings,and even Saturday morning airings were on a handful of episodes, lower-quality end credits,and incorrect edits listing different songs than on the episodes - and one episode - "Alias Micky Dolenz" was from 16mm elements - when the 35mm were safe and sound! Heck, these transfers ARE STILL being used in syndication 35 years later! the Blu-Ray box set was the first totally proper release,unedited with all the proper elements as aired on NBC first-run.
That's why I wish I had bought them before everyone else did. The Rhino DVDs looked a bit pink, as in the pink that comes from dye coupler failure.
 

Mark Y

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I wouldn't worry about anything held by a major studio or company with Archive Management - stuff properly stored even if it's sitting on the shelf for decades - Stuff like Adventures in Paradise (20th Television) and Tightrope (Sony) are safe and sound. They won't deteriorate as they are being properly stored. "Amos and Andy" is still properly stored somewhere at CBS (Studio City Radford or Fort Lee,NJ - or Both) and nice, 35mm master transfers of those will never see the light of day!

Don't believe that BS about "Farmer's Daughter" having been damaged in storage - that was a BS story Sony told AntennaTV because they didn't want to spend the money go back and make new transfers of elements that have been properly stored. 100 35mm Picture Negatives and separate 100 Sound Negatives just don't get "damaged". Sony in notorious for NOT spending money to go back into the archive for material. The missing "Circus Boy" episodes that AntennaTV didn't air EXIST - they just didn't want to spend the funds to replace the missing 35-odd year old syndication tapes. That's the same reason there's old transfers on almost every other "borderline" Screen Gems show.

Heck, Rhino has done a BETTER job with THE MONKEES master elements than Screen Gems/Columbia Pictures TV ever did. I'll give you an example - the prints transferred for broadcast in the 1980's - the ones that MTV aired and were in the ones that replaced the old 16mm prints in syndication - Songs from Repeat airings,and even Saturday morning airings were on a handful of episodes, lower-quality end credits,and incorrect edits listing different songs than on the episodes - and one episode - "Alias Micky Dolenz" was from 16mm elements - when the 35mm were safe and sound! Heck, these transfers ARE STILL being used in syndication 35 years later! the Blu-Ray box set was the first totally proper release,unedited with all the proper elements as aired on NBC first-run.

It's the OTHER stuff that worried me - "Life of Riley" who the heck has that, or is storing it's masters? (I know Tgg released the Gleason episodes - but they were edited,and I'm not 100% sure they were legit licensed) That's got to be the only MAJOR 1950's comedy series that hasn't seen the light of day in decades.

"My Little Margie" is in the public domain - what the heck happened to the master elements? (same with other shows Roland Reed was involved in.) ROCKY JONES - SPACE RANGER (Roland Reed was involved in that,too) - where are the negatives of the TV and Feature length elements? As far as the original 39-episodes, none are "lost", and have been in private hands for years, but some of the features-compilations seem to have gone missing.

That is what worried me - the shows that don't have a major studio or rights holder safely storing elements. Look at what happened to stuff like FLASH GORDON, TERRY & THE PIRATES (although we've heard about elements being found, including the missing 2 episodes only to have them thrown out when the person died) , DICK TRACY, even series as recent as the 1968 CBS BLONDIE series is missing - CBS doesn't have it, Universal doesn't have it, King Features doesn't have it It, Kayro Productions doesn't exist anymore (KFS do have the master elements on the films and the 1957 TV series which got a DVD release) (Yes, i'm using comic strip related shows as an example)

The BLONDIE hurts the most as Bruce Lee guest stared in the final episode - the only American TV appearance he made that doesn't exist - and if Bruce Lee researchers over the years couldn't find it - and trust me they have looked and look - filmmakers and documentary makers - those who would have access to such places others don't - then it really is gone.
The Monkees series was an interesting case. Yes, all of what you mentioned happened on the 1986 tape masters, but they were far closer to the original airings than the previous 16mm syndication versions.

The majority of the Season 1 episodes on MTV (though not all) had the original songs, while the majority of the Season 1 episodes in pre-1986 syndication (though not all) had the summer 1967 rerun songs.

Song credits in the 16mm syndicated shows were mostly wrong, but mostly accurate in the MTV versions.

When I first rented one of the Columbia VHS tapes I learned why the closing credits on the MTV shows had 16mm footage cut together with 35mm footage -- that was done to cover up the Kellogg's and Yardley logos in the closing credits. I don't know why that was considered okay for home video but not for TV. The Columbia home video releases (though not the later Rhino) also had the original Screen Gems logos, which were replaced on the MTV airings.

The Monkees series is a special case, as there have been so many variants with redubbed songs in the summer 1967 and Saturday morning reruns, because they were still using the show to promote their current music.

You're correct that the Blu-Ray set is the closest the shows have ever gotten to a 100% complete restoration.
 

BobO'Link

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When I first rented one of the Columbia VHS tapes I learned why the closing credits on the MTV shows had 16mm footage cut together with 35mm footage -- that was done to cover up the Kellogg's and Yardley logos in the closing credits. I don't know why that was considered okay for home video but not for TV...
Because those logos on a TV broadcast would be free advertising for Kellogg's and Yardley (or whatever company it may be). It could also cause paying advertisers to complain and ask for reduced fees or partial refunds on such programs.

It doesn't matter on home video because no one's sponsoring those and the historical context is important. If anything, the distributor may have to get permission to include those logos on home video as they're likely copyright or trademark protected but I can't imagine a single company having issue with their inclusion (it *is* "free" advertising, after all) or asking for payment for their use and I can't imagine any distributor asking for payment from a company to keep such logos on credits as it tends to enhance the product.
 
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MatthewA

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Of course, those MTV reruns were when Coca-Cola owned Columbia and let Colex handle distribution.
 

Jack P

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And tonight for the first time in 42 years, the Jack Narz version of "Concentration" returned to broadcast television! It began not with the first episode from 1973, but from Week 97 during the start of the 1976-77 season.

Very much an "old school" game show more reminiscent of the 60s than looking ahead to the 80s.
 
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The Obsolete Man

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And tonight for the first time in 42 years, the Jack Narz version of "Concentration" returned to broadcast television! It began not with the first episode from 1973, but from Week 97 during the start of the 1976-77 season.

Very much an "old school" game show more reminiscent of the 60s than looking ahead to the 80s.
Fremantle's going to get their money's worth out of the G-T library, one way or another. And that's great. They've found ways to get access to MG/HS and Concentration, and they're digitizing more all the time.

...well, all of the G-T Library that doesn't involve Bob Barker as host. I'd expect to see Drew's early TPIR seasons on Buzzr before we see the Bob years again.
 

Jack P

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I've been inventorying the old TPIR I do have (I basically use as my cut-off point when Bob stopped dying his hair, because that's when his worst behavior starts to become evident) and it's such a great show. Here's hoping that they can air again one day and maybe someday for the first time the Dennis James night shows (which I think is the last untapped extant Goodson archive show to make use of. The Tom Kennedy shows did air in the late 90s).
 

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Here's hoping that they can air again one day and maybe someday for the first time the Dennis James night shows (which I think is the last untapped extant Goodson archive show to make use of. The Tom Kennedy shows did air in the late 90s).
I remember the Kennedys on GSN (The Nighttime Price Is Right of '85 that had Tom Kennedy); I recall seeing those from late-night tapings, and I even recall sneaking out of bed some nights to see one.
 

Lord Dalek

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I've been inventorying the old TPIR I do have (I basically use as my cut-off point when Bob stopped dying his hair, because that's when his worst behavior starts to become evident) and it's such a great show. Here's hoping that they can air again one day and maybe someday for the first time the Dennis James night shows (which I think is the last untapped extant Goodson archive show to make use of. The Tom Kennedy shows did air in the late 90s).
The Doug Davidson episodes have also never been rerun.
 

Jack P

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Good point there. There are a large number of off-air recordings on YT so it hasn't seemed as "lost".

The four lost 70s Goodson shows (save the random episode) are:

Password (ABC, 1971-75)
Showoffs (ABC, 1975)
The Better Sex (ABC, 1977-78)
Mindreaders (NBC, 1979-80)

Exactly how much of "He Said, She Said" (1969-70) exists isn't clear. GSN/BUZZR over the years aired two pilots and about 7-8 episodes.
 

Wiseguy

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This is one of the many things that makes Dark Shadows unique. It is one of the few (perhaps only) daytime soap prior to 1978 to have survived 99.99% intact. If it hadn't been for the syndicated reruns that began in 1975, the show could have been destroyed years ago.
Actually 99.92% (or 99.918367...) 1224/1225
 
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MatthewA

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That's a much better survival percentage than some shows.
 

Tony Bensley

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Brian Himes said:
This is one of the many things that makes Dark Shadows unique. It is one of the few (perhaps only) daytime soap prior to 1978 to have survived 99.99% intact. If it hadn't been for the syndicated reruns that began in 1975, the show could have been destroyed years ago.

Actually 99.92% (or 99.918367...) 1224/1225
That's a much better survival percentage than some shows.
I know this is devolving into nitpicky territory, but it's my understanding that among the 1224 surviving DARK SHADOWS episodes are some that exist only in Black and White, as the original Color telecasts for them are no longer known to be extant. Of course, by the same token, the audio for the one missing episode still exists, and is included on the DARK SHADOWS Complete Series Collection, correct?

CHEERS! :)
 

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Tony,

If memory serves me correctly....which it sometimes does, when Dark Shadows premiered in 1966 on ABC it was videotaped in black and white. It didn't go over to color until 1967.
However, I remember reading somewhere that the show's second color episode was lost and replaced with a B&W kinescope copy.

John
 

bmasters9

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Tony,

If memory serves me correctly....which it sometimes does, when Dark Shadows premiered in 1966 on ABC it was videotaped in black and white. It didn't go over to color until 1967.
However, I remember reading somewhere that the show's second color episode was lost and replaced with a B&W kinescope copy.

John
Even if so (even if that second color outing was lost and replaced w/a B/W kinescope), I take it from what you said that at least that episode exists in that form-- is that correct?
 
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Wiseguy

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Tony,

If memory serves me correctly....which it sometimes does, when Dark Shadows premiered in 1966 on ABC it was videotaped in black and white. It didn't go over to color until 1967.
However, I remember reading somewhere that the show's second color episode was lost and replaced with a B&W kinescope copy.

John
It gets a little complicated. The first color episode of Dark Shadows was broadcast on a Friday but was broadcast on ABC in B&W. Today this episode can be seen in color. The second color episode was shown on a Monday with an announcement in the opening credits that said something like "Good news, Dark Shadows fans! Dark Shadows is now in color!" However, this episode was lost and replaced with a B&W kinescope copy. So the announcement of the series being in color was on a B&W episode in the original syndication run (and probably VHS/DVD releases), while the episode preceding the announcement was in color. The announcement was removed on the Sci-Fi Channel broadcasts. Also, some of the original B&W episodes were lost and replaced by B&W kinescopes (such as Jonathan Frid's first appearance). Although no color was lost, the picture is still of inferior quality.
 
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MatthewA

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There are some pre-1980 soaps that have a higher survival rate like Strange Paradise and (although this is unconfirmed) Days of our Lives.
It is boneheaded beyond belief that P&G didn't start saving stuff until the late 1970s, and also ironic Colgate-Palmolive saved more of The Doctors, more than enough for anyone to syndicate in the 21st century. What does exist of the P&G shows they've tried to upload to streaming but nothing seems to take, and the company that released those DVD sets of As the World Turns and Guiding Light went under.

Columbia is a studio so it makes sense that they would save their shows. But even if they've saved Days and Young and the Restless in all or mostly complete form, they're just sitting in a vault not generating income. That, to me, makes no sense. Is it because these shows are still running and they don't want unfair/negative comparisons to new episodes? That's the reason I heard that GSN stopped rerunning Bob Barker-era Price is Right: he was still hosting and either CBS or Fremantle didn't want to cannibalize ratings of new episodes.
 

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