shows that have been destroyed (1 Viewer)

[PatrickGoodluck]

Let's wait until Tuesday before we eat anything! Remember, Radio Times is no longer BBC-owned, so their story is still just reporting on "rumours", not on any "insider" info.

I seriously would like to believe something has been returned (and I still find the claims of 90-plus episodes to be ludicrous), but the RT's story is currently still just a story.

One rumour on the Radio Times piece that seems believable is that any returned Who episodes are just part of a bigger find of other missing '60s television (which I find much more exciting that a haul of Doctor Who-only recoveries).

Others are saing that Tuesday's announcement isn't abot missing episodes, but a press conference for the docudrama, so I will still be waiting for something official, since the Radio Times story is hardly official.

I hope that Tuesday's announcement would make mention of all the Doctor Who episodes supposedly recovered, if only to put an end to all the rumours, hoaxes and endless speculation.

Yes, I would also love to see missing episodes from other lost Beeb shows such as Out Of The Unknown, Paul Temple, Ace Of Wands, Till Death Us Do Part etc.

 

[Brian Himes]

The game show The Magnificent Marble Machine is all but lost. Only three episodes are known to exist. UCLA has one (February 17, 1976), The Paley Center has one (March 1976) and one episode (Episode #4, July 10, 1975) is floating around the trading circuit. There is a brief segment of another episode in the movie The China Syndrome. You can see it on Jack Lemmon's TV during one scene.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Perhaps it's for the best. Lots of people hated it, but on the other hand, the pinball machine looked great for its day.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Perhaps it's for the best. Lots of people hated it, but on the other hand, the pinball machine looked great for its day.

I remember as a kid, Marble was my absolute fave game show, entirely because of the giant pinball machine!

 

[AndyMcKinney]

As I suspected, tomorrow's "announcement" is likely only about the BBC's new iPlayer, and nothing at all to do with Doctor Who. The whole "missing episodes announcement" was likely just some more wishful thinking. Here's some of what some of those who should be "in the know" about such things had to say about the "news" paper stories from yesterday:

Doctor Who’s brand manager Edward Russell said: “It’s Sunday. The weather’s gray and the papers are full of rubbish…” Asked if he was referring to the above story, he replied, “What do you think?!”

Paul Vanezis from the Doctor Who Restoration Team wrote on his Twitter: “I would love it to be true. But it isn’t.”

Tom Spilsbury, editor of Doctor Who Magazine, said: “It’s nonsense, I’m afraid.”

 

[Neil Brock]

So, here's a question. If you could build a time machine and go back and record something which wasn't preserved, what would it be? As a sports fan, there would be so much that I would want from all sports that I couldn't really pick just one thing. So, last just say something from entertainment. I think maybe all of the original Steve Allen Tonight Shows.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Great question, Neil. Here's my list:

Every episode of the original $ale of the Century from 1969 to 1974.
Every episode of $10,000/$20,000 Pyramid from 1973 to 1978.
Every episode of ABC Password from 1971 to 1975.
Every CBS Daytime Password from 1961 to 1966.

 

[Jack P]

If I were to pick a single month where I could record everything one that would be at the top of the list would be October 1962. The debut of Johnny Carson as Tonight Show host and the first month, plus the three game National League playoff series between the Giants and Dodgers, and the seven game Yankees-Giants World Series which is the only one where the outcome was in doubt right on the last pitch. We had the Cuban Missile Crisis that month so additional news material beyond what's been preserved would be of value, and also the daytime game shows of that era that have almost nothing left to us ("Say When" comes to mind. Art James is the unluckiest of all game show hosts in terms of work wiped out. He hosted two shows that ran in excess of four years, first "Say When" and then "The Who, What Or Where Game" and collectively we only have the pilot of the former and one episode of the latter).

For specific things, I would certainly love to have taped about 50-100 WPIX New York Yankee broadcasts of wins from 1976-1981 and their coverage of the 1976-77-78-81 ALCS. Of course earlier WPIX Yankee broadcasts from the days of Old Yankee Stadium would be a must as well since almost nothing exists in terms of telecast game footage of old Yankee Stadium.

Wouldn't it be something as well to go back in time and record pre-1956 programs so you wouldn't need the "Live Feed" process (which I wish was used more often) to restore the "live" look of shows that could only be saved as kinescopes back in the day? I am told that those who saw the original broadcast of Kraft Theatre's production of "A Night To Remember" had a more jolting experience when the camera titled to suggest the ship sinking at the climax and which the kinescope barely hints at.

 

[John Karras]

Wouldn't it be something as well to go back in time and record pre-1956 programs so you wouldn't need the "Live Feed" process (which I wish was used more often) to restore the "live" look of shows that could only be saved as kinescopes back in the day?

It would be wonderful to see those shows as they were originally broadcast and experience the live look viewers experienced at the time. It's ironic that as we wish for this, today's generation are destroying the live tape look of preserved material and making them look like kinescopes to appease a generation totally clueless about the difference between tape look and film look, and to also compensate for the inadequacies of today's flat-screen displays which are hopeless at properly displaying legacy content.

 

[Dave Lawrence]

Like others, I couldn't pick just one thing, or even just one series. So I'd be using that time machine to record/rescue several shows for myself. Here are my top picks:

1) the New York years of Carson's Tonight Show
2) the complete CBS run of Password from the 60s
3) the complete ABC run of Password from the 70s
4) the complete 60s/NBC run of Tom Kennedy's You Don't Say
5) the complete 60s/NBC run of Bill Cullen's Eye Guess

As I was reading others' choices and considering my own, I thought about how not only is it very unfortunate that all of these things weren't preserved, but that it's also sad that even if they WERE preserved, we probably wouldn't have access to much more than we do right now. That Carson "Vault" DVD series got off to a bad start using edited shows, so I'm sure the "lost" shows would meet the same fate if they existed. Outside of maybe the earliest years of GSN, that network would have little use for the game shows that have been listed here. Similarly, the soap opera channel Soapnet currently airs an overnight block of what they term "classic" episodes of shows like General Hospital - none of which date back earlier than 2008; so even if the lost years (decades!) of shows like GH still existed, they wouldn't seem to fit within the channel's concept of "classic". So it really would all come down to what one could magically retrieve on one's own.

 

[Jack P]

If I had to pick full runs of lost game shows ,these are the top ten-----

The Match Game (1962-1969)
Split Second (1972-1975)
Jeopardy! (1964-1975)
$10,000/20,000 Pyramid (CBS and ABC; 1973-1980)
The Big Showdown (1974-1975)
Wheel Of Fortune (Woolery era only) (1975-1981)
Password (ABC) (1971-1975)
You Don't Say (1963-1969)
Jackpot! (1974-1975)
Eye Guess (1966-1969)

 

[Brian Himes]

I would have to say all of the episodes of Dark Shadows that are now only available in kinescope (several of which were color episodes that are now only seen in black and white) plus the one episode that is lost. That's 28 episodes plus the one missing from over a five year period.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Looks like the BBC themselves are finally weighing-in on the whole Doctor Who thing.

Now that is a source I can believe. Of course, it will do nothing (much) to quell speculation over exactly how much has been found, but at least it seems to be confirmation that at least some (i.e. more than one) episodes have been found!

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Looks like the BBC themselves are finally weighing-in on the whole Doctor Who thing.

Now that is a source I can believe. Of course, it will do nothing (much) to quell speculation over exactly how much has been found, but at least it seems to be confirmation that at least some (i.e. more than one) episodes have been found!

Yeah, when BBC News is saying they have recovered missing episodes, I think it's safe to believe they have recovered missing episodes.

And at the perfect time, too... today marks the day they are officially out of completed serials to release on DVD. Everything going forward would have needed some animated reconstruction. But now... who knows what will be complete, what will be within the two episodes or less animation threshold, and what will finally be available?

Of course, it's a lock that we will finally get to see more from the best Doctor (and most underrepresented on DVD because of wiping), Patrick Troughton.

 

[oldtvshowbuff]

Great thread guys. Anybody know what the story is on PDQ? I loved that show in the 60s as it was such a smart show. I've had the pilot for decades but have any others ever surfaced and do they exist? Also, what about Baffle, which was the same game basically but renamed?

Consider the history of "Shenanigans", basically a reboot of "Video Village, Jr.", hosted by Stubby Kaye and assisted by Kenny "The Cop" Williams for two runs on ABC's Saturday morning lineup (Sept. 1964-Mar. 1965, Sept.-Dec. 1965, the latter, in color). An advertising vehicle for board game sponsor Milton Bradley, I believe only one episode exists on a kinescope, I know, because I have it in a DVD-set on TV Guide's Classic TV Game Shows (Genius Entertainment).

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Hey Jack P., how many episodes from the first year (the 30 that were taped in 1974) of The $25,000 Pyramid with Bill Cullen circulate among collectors? I am aware of the first two taped ones (Anne Meara & Tony Roberts, Anne Meara & William Shatner). There is also one with Lucie Arnaz & Clifton Davis, but I am not sure if it is the one from 1974 or the one from 1975 with bonus cards.

Episodes 001-030 did not have any bonus cards, while episodes 031-150 did. 30 episodes were taped per year.

 

[Jack P]

Only the first two from Season 1. All the off-air recordings from 1985 repeats on WLIG are from Seasons 2 to 5. All 11 Season 2 shows are the snowy quality ones, while the Season 3-5 shows in circulation are good quality recordings. The total number of episodes in circulation counting the two master copies of the first two episodes is 28.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

The big Doctor Who news came out last night...

9 episodes recovered, One Troughton serial completed, one recovered to the point of missing only one episode.

The Web of Fear (first appearance of Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart) recovered almost entirely, with episode #3 still missing, and Enemy of the World (Troughton vs. Troughton) recovered entirely.

Both are available on itunes now, DVDs are coming for region 2 in November and 2014, and hopefully, the US will get the Special editions with commentaries and an animated missing episode for Web.

Not bad, considering how badly underrepresented Troughton's era is because of wiping. And, it shows that missing episodes can still be uncovered all these years later.

The question I still have is whether other episodes were recovered, or whether other shows are benefiting from this Nigerian find. Did they find missing Dad's Army, for example? Doctor Who can't have been the only show hanging around that Nigerian station...

 

[AndyMcKinney]

The question I still have is whether other episodes were recovered, or whether other shows are benefiting from this Nigerian find. Did they find missing Dad's Army, for example? Doctor Who can't have been the only show hanging around that Nigerian station...

According to Steve Roberts (who is on the team who remastered the rediscovered Who episodes), no one has seen any evidence of any further Doctor Who finds right now. Here is his exact quote (from Roobarb's Forum):

the reality is that we just don't know if there are any more. I think we all feel that it's likely that there's more to come, but we have absolutely no evidence. Nobody has seen anything more than the episodes that have been released. That's been the most frustrating part of the omnirumour - the absolute certainty amongst those people who convinced others that they were "in the know" that there was definitely a ninety episode haul, compared to the stark reality of only ever seeing any evidence of nine.

So, Doctor Who fans shouldn't work themselves up any expectations of more "big reveals" in the coming weeks, just bask in the knowledge of two-ish more Troughton serials safely back in the archive and available for viewing (with DVDs to come soon).

As for non-Doctor Who finds, I don't think anything was said one way or the other at that particular press conference. It wouldn't surprise me if something were announced/shown at the soon-upcoming "Missing Believed Wiped" event. Unfortunately, unless it's something really popular with the general public, like Dad's Army, we probably don't stand a lot of chance of seeing it (on DVD or repeats). Several editions of Till Death Us Do Part returned to the BBC in recent years, but only one of those, I think, was ever repeated (once) and none released on disc. A shame!

 

[Adam_S]

Considering ABC is in the process of liquidating a million physical master tape assets (many are the only physical master copies of a lot of shows) we'll probably have a lot more lost shows in the future. Don't worry though, it's all been migrated to servers, so I'm sure it's all very safe.