Should you really set your floorstanding speakers to large? (1 Viewer)

[Brian Fitterman]

Note that if you listen to analog sources (e.g., prefer analog outputs), you may have less options for bass mgmt, assuming you don't want the signal going through A/D and D/A conversions. It can be more limiting if your system is doing double-duty with HT, which may further constrain your sub configuration relative to your mains and controller.

This is exactly why I set mine to large. They sound great for movies as well set to large. I have Studio 100's with a Proceed HPA2 - (250 watts per channel dual monoblock design) so I have no power problems.

I have a question for Richard above, How did you blow your tweeters by setting it to large? The high frequencies are the same either way. Was it causing distortion in the amp?

If you are going to set speakers to small, then by all means get smaller speakers, they are both cheaper and in some cases can have better midrange response compared to their larger siblings. I my experience I have just found it nearly impossilbe to get a sat/sub configuration to sound as good as full range speakers (for music, not movies). Maybe now that I have dedicated room it would be easier, but not everyone has the ability to move the sub anywhere in the room to get the response needed to get it to blend nicly with the small speakers.

 

[Lee Carbray]

Ed, the receivers do have both options. You should check you manual it may be labeled as something else. When a speaker is set to large there is no crossover being used. In your case if there really is not an option to set the speakers the receiver has the speakers set to small.

 

[EdNichols]

Lee, I will check the manual but I am pretty sure it doesn't have that option. Could it be on my receiver that if I have the crossover option just turned off then I guess that is the same as setting the speakers to large? And when I select the crossover then maybe it assumes small and I have the option of choosing the crossover.

 

[Mat_M]

There's no need to (yet) when I have 300WPC with full range speakers. And even if I did, I'd still set them to large.

Buy a bigger sub!

Cees

 

[Brett DiMichele]

If you are running a set of low frequency capable mains my
biggest suggestion is the best amplification you can afford.

The problem with Sub's Towers that are not internaly
powered (my 9's are passive which is specificaly what I
wanted but the AR7 is the same thing with addition to a
built in sub amp)

On a passive Sub'd tower you will need more power to drive
the sub than any reciever is going to put out.. Subs have
very low impedance swings when playing loud, low passages.
The Mids and Highs generaly will sing with very low wattage
In my case I run a dedicated Sunfire 500 watt amp to the
two 10's wired series so the amp is actualy putting out
closer to 1Kw at the present 2 Ohm Load.

And on the mids
and tweets I run a modest seperate Onkyo Power Amp (M282B)
which puts out 100 watts RMS x2 all channels driven. This
setup works flawlessly since you don't have to worry about
one amp having to handle everything and possibly clipping
which will take out the tweeter before anything else.

But in order to do something like this the mains have to
be Bi Ampable in the first place.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Mike,

Yeah I envy me too! I just can't wait till I can actually
undertake the project. I have to wait till Jon M. is done
designing and testing and retesting but I am confident they
will be something to behold between Jon M. and Thomas W.
those two are like the gods of DIY

Jon's plans include 2 B-G RD-50's mated with 8 MCM CF Mids
per cabinent sitting ontop of a sealed sub enclosure and
he is using BPD 1803's I believe but I will use 2 AV-12's


That's 7.5' of speakers in one cabinent!

 

[Brian Bunge]

I disagree with people who say set them small no matter what.

I disagree too. It has a lot to do with your equipment, the size of the room, etc.

 

[Lee Carbray]

Ed, you got it. Crossover off = Large.

 

[Mat_M]

Brett,

Don't you mean you wired the 10's in parallel? If you have a 2 Ohm load with two drivers in series, that means that each driver is only 1 Ohm

 

[Greg_R]

I use Avia tone sweeps and I get good bass down to about 25hz using my NHT VT2 speakers run as large.

For me good bass = less than 10% distortion at 115dB. I have yet to experience a set of mains that can reproduce this at the listening position (at low frequencies). Keeping in mind that the crossover is not a brick wall (i.e. your mains will still need to reproduce frequency below the crossover range) I feel that setting the speakers to small is the best starting point (assuming a quality sub). If you personally enjoy having them set to large, then by all means go for it... after all, it's your HT.

 

[CurtisC]

If you think your speakers are large,set em' to large.If they are small,set em' to small.BUT,the only good option is to try all configurations/settings,then you know which sounds best for you.

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Curtis,

Exactly!

Greg,

115Db well I listen to most music and movies at 75-80Db
Yeesh I must be getting old because 115Db is too loud for
these ears (Headroom is nice though)

 

[Brett DiMichele]

Mat,

Yep I meant parallel dowt.. I should think before I type..
On second thought I just shouldn't type at all when I am
at work because I don't think too much.. Hurts my head

 

[RobertR]

I have mains which each have two 12" drivers and a 12" passive actively biamped with 800 watts available to each speaker. I set them to large.

 

[Jorge UF]

All these measurements and numbers are fine, but it really comes down to what sounds better. The numbers are really irrelevant. I have experimented with both having my mains both small and large, and have tweaked my sub settings, and no numbers will convince me that they should be set to small. It probably is very speaker dependant, but with my set up it seems that the sound loses "something" when set to small. Obviously my mains can't dig that deep, but why should that matter when I have my subwoofer picking up the slack? Maybe its the fact that my mains can produce those higher bass frequencies a lot smoother than my sub can. Who knows?

 

[Ronnie Ferrell]

I agree with Jorge UF

I did a lot of listening testing last night because of this post. My mains are only 5.25" 2-ways and guess what... They sound better on large. BUT my receiver has a setting for the sub that is L/R+LFE. So both the sub and mains get the low end info of the mains. With this setting, my sub is crossed at 60Hz. This also gives me the flattest response when playing test tones from 16Hz to 160Hz.

The next best setting was mains at small and a cross over point at 80Hz.

The worst sound was from mains set to large and sub set to LFE only. There was a huge gap in the sound with this setting.

Also one other setting I played with was the center channel. My center sounds best set at large no matter how I set anything else.

So my point is it also depends on how much "bass management" is built into your receiver. And you need to take an hour of two and do some critical listening to ALL of your options and then pick which combination YOU like best with your equipment.

Ronnie

 

[Cees Alons]

Ronnie,

The worst sound was from mains set to large and sub set to LFE only.

On many systems that's coupled: choosing the bass of the mains/center to go to the sub is done by setting them small. No other option. That's what we were discussing.

In fact, what you're doing is the same, but then your system enables you to get some extra bass (I don't know how much) from the mains.


Cees

 

[Ronnie Ferrell]

On many systems that's coupled: choosing the bass of the mains/center to go to the sub is done by setting them small. No other option. That's what we were discussing.

In fact, what you're doing is the same, but then your system enables you to get some extra bass (I don't know how much) from the mains.

Yep, I know that is what is being discussed. My whole point is that it also depends on how much bass management your receiver has. Mine does not have a lot, but more than some. I agree that on my system, if the only choices I had were small mains with all bass sent to sub, and large- with sub having LFE only, I would choose the former. But with a little more bass management in my receiver, large- with L/R+LFE going to the sub sounds the best. If I would not have experimented with all my settings, and just set it like everyone else, I would have compromised the sound my system optimally can produce.

What gets me is I wish manufactures would tell you EXACTLY what is being sent where with all the settings. They should list the low as well as the high pass filter points etc. And in my example, like you pointed out, just how much of the mains bass is sent to the mains and how much is sent to the sub when set at Large mains and sub at L/R+LFE...


Ronnie

 

[Michael R Price]

Ronnie,

Wow, that's really something.. what speakers are those and what volume do you listen at? I'd just be a little concerned for the woofers in your mains, if they're receiving a full range signal.

Has anyone tried changing the crossover frequency (say, between 40-60-80-100Hz) with the speakers set to small? What kind of differences does that produce?

 

[Zack_R]

Assuming a capable subwoofer is in place and from the key seating position, it would seem to me as long as the bass is calibrated using avia or the like, there shouldn't be anymore bass output from running large plus sub vs. small plus sub. In the small setting it may require a little more sub volume to equal the output of large plus sub but in theory there should not be a difference.

I have my system set to small and my sub pretty well calibrated to flat (avia). When I set the mains to large I will obtain more bass but it is not longer calibrated flat without me making some eq or sub adjustments.

The other issues most of must consider when taking in home meausrements is that the spl meter is indicating a volume of playback and not an accuracy of playback. My point would be that your typical large floorstander may not necessarily be playing a pure 30, 40 or 50 hz frequency when testing. The speakers are playing a sound but without being able to analyze further the 30 hz frequency may be summed to higher frequency. The SPL meter could be influenced by harmonics or a variation of the bass signal being played instead of an accurate. This would then carry over to music we listen to.

Most floorstanders and a lot of subs can't really *fake* 30 hz and below sound but they may fake us out on the more common musical frequencies.