Should I upgrade? Add an amp or new receiver?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Jimi C, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey guys,

    So, Im thinking about upgrading my receiver. I just feel that I could be getting better sound out of my speakers if I upgraded. Currently I own a Kenwood vr-6070 100x6 receiver. Im just unsure if now is a good time to buy. Im really interested in improving sound quality. Use is about 60% music 40% movies. I have a 5.1 setup with Fluance SV10 towers, SV6 bookshelves for center and surrounds and the Dayton 10" sub.

    This is what im considering right now.
    http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...0630-Z&status=

    After typing that Im wondering if the $500 MAX I have allocated for this upgrade would be better off put towords a new sub. What do you guys think I should do?
     
  2. Alon Goldberg

    Alon Goldberg Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Jimi - I would wait a little bit longer before purchasing a new receiver - in under 6 months we should start seeing receivers that support Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, and have HDMI 1.3 inputs. But if you were to purchase this month, I would look at the Denon AVR-2307CI, which should be available around $650 (just a bit more than your budget but well worth it!)

    http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...wreceivers.php
     
  3. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    California
    Real Name:
    Dave Moritz
    I agree with Alon here I would wait for the next generation reciever to come out. That is if you are planning to or have all ready purchased a HD-DVD player or Blu-ray player. If you have no plans on getting into HD for a few years then I also agree buy the Denon AVR-2307CI that Denon show for MSRP $799.00, so if you can get it for $650. I would jump on it quickly before you end up paying more.

    It all depends on how much better you want to improve your system. You can make a difference buying a much better reciever with more flexability, more features and better components(like DAC's, premap section and amplifiers). And remember that your speakers are a big part of your sound so if you really want to elevate your system. I would look into upgrading your speakers as well. You can go out and spend $4k on a flagship reciever but if you have some bad speakers then the flagship will not sound any better than a $400 reciever. Also you might want to look at Pioneer Elite's VSX-80TXV it retails for about $650 as well. So you might be able to pick it up cheaper somewhere as well? The Pioneer Elite models are very good as well!

    You should see good results from upgrading your reciever though. I am also in the middle of upgrading my HT system and the reciever is one of the components to be upgraded. I hope this was of some help to you.

    My current system:..................... ............Upgrade/Add On:
    Yamaha RX-V995 Reciever........................ Denon, Adcom or ? (2007)
    Sony DVP-S9000 ES ................................Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray (12/06)
    .................................................. ..........Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD (9/06)
    Denon DVD-2200 DVD - am keeping in HD as SACD / DVD-A player
    Denon DTR-2000 DAT Recorder
    JVC QL-50 Turntable
    Panasonic VHS dont even use anymore........HD-DVR or DVD Recorder
    .................................................. .........1080p HD Projector
    Polk Center Channel ................................Klipsch or JBL Center
    Advent Marble Rear Speakers....................Klipsch or JBL rear speakers
    I have not choosen paticular models of speakers but they need closely match my Altec A-7 speakers.
    Currently no subwoofer (A-7's have 15" woofers) Am looking into a min. of a 12" subwoofer.
     
  4. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    1
    I hear what you guys are saying about the speakers not being the best. But, I think that right now its the receiver that is my bottleneck. I think these speakers can sound better and that they would benefit from a nicer receiver or perhaps even just a little more power like a nice 2 channel amp. I just dont want to buy new speakers yet, maybe this time next year. I really want to upgrade everything, but like you Dave, I dont want to do it all at once. In stages, and since the speakers are still relativly new, I think ill wait awhile on those.
     
  5. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    California
    Real Name:
    Dave Moritz
    I don't think I said anything bad about your speakers, did I ? I was just saying that speakers where a very important part of your system and an area that can allways be improved. A nicer reciever with a stronger and better amps could help your entire system sound better. And I hear you on upgrading in stages. That is how I have improved my system over the years. I would upgrade in stages and then start all over again constantly trying to improve and bring in new technologies. My first decent audio system was a Kenwood rack system. I ended up gutting the speakers and replacing the stock Kenwood drivers with Pyle Driver components and a good crossover. This greatly improved the sound of the system. I also added a JVC cd player to it. The next upgrade was a Onkyo Integra Intergrated Amp 100 w/ch, Harman Kardon Tuner, Onkyo Integra cassette deck and Onkyo Integra Turntable. This went on to include upgrades like a JVC 4 head VHS, then a Denon Pro-Logic surround preamp/tuner. Then I purchased a Denon CD player and Denon DAT recorder. Some where in there I bought a pair of Altec Lancing Voice Of The Theaters A-7 speakers, which I still use today. I purchased a Yamaha laserdisc player and then later a Marantz laser disc player. I then made the most exspensive upgrade to date. A friend help me buy a McIntosh MX-130 preamp/processor. Then I got married and upgrading that to Dolby Digital and DTS was out of the question. I unfortunantly traded that straight across for a Yamaha RX-V995 because I knew she would never agree to the cost of the upgrade. I still have that reciever today but I also managed to loose an ugly 150 lbs [​IMG].

    I have since bought a Sony DVP-S9000 ES DVD player, Denon DVD-2200 and a Sony 50" Wega LCD HDTV. And also picked up a JVC QL-50 turntable from my father, that one was a freebie [​IMG]. So now its on to HD-DVD, Blu-ray, a updated 7 channel reciever, a 1080p projector and then its on to upgrading my center channel and rear speakers. We shall see what happens at that point in time. Alot of that equipment I have purchased still works and I will be using them in a second system so its nice to recycle some of the older stuff into another seperate system, sure helps get more value out of the investment.

    I recomend you check out the Denon and then the Pioneer Elite. They are both good values and then you can decide what direction you want to go from there. Have fun with your HT and let us know how it works out for you.
     
  6. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yea.. Ive pretty much been doing the same as you. I just havnt upgraded anything in the last 3 or 4 years. I cant even recall all of the gear I went through before this. I guess im overall pretty pleased with what I have right now. Im just unsure where to start as far as upgrades.
    That Denon receiver looks quite promising, except I cant find it for sale anywhere on the net. I guess its not out yet.
     
  7. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    California
    Real Name:
    Dave Moritz
  8. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 1999
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can tell you for a certainty that a better subwoofer will just crush any difference you could get by changing your amplification.
     
  9. Th8ter

    Th8ter Extra

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just went through similar situation. I upgraded to B&W 703's. My Denon was not doing them justice. My old NHT sub blew and I bought an SVS Ultra sub. Man I am glad that sub blew! I can now wait on new amp/recevier. This sub allow all power to go to speakers now and it sounds so much sweeter. I also did some acoustical panels and between the 2 I have a whole new sound!
     
  10. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    1
    Maybe ill just have to do both. Im just worried that because my room is so large that no sub in my budget will work that well. The room is about 25ft x 14ft with 7ft ceilings, although only a small portion of that is my actual theater space.
     
  11. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    460
    Location:
    California
    Real Name:
    Dave Moritz
    Unfortunantly your HT system does not know how much of that space is being used for your system. So you have to plan your system as that entire room was a dedicated room. That is a good size room so besides the reciever you should look into a bigger better subwoffer. I realize that your on a budjet but there is basically no way around it. Think of a subwoofer as a air pump. In order to product strong deep bass you have to move air. And in a large room that is where a smaller subwoofer fails. It can not move enough air and most of your lower end base is felt more than heard for the most part. Larger subs do better because they do one simple thing, they move alot more air.
     
  12. Jay*Man

    Jay*Man Auditioning

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0

    Which Denon do you have? I have a 3200 with an Adcom 545II amp for the mains, which are B&W 603s. Also been thinking about upgrading the receiver.. Denon 2807, Pioneer 1015, Yamaha something...
     
  13. DougEW

    DougEW Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jimi,

    I've done the same as others. I've been upgrading since I got my first dvd player. I still have my original Yamaha RX-V795 receiver and Atlantic Technology speakers I got in the mid 90's. These will soon be running my system in my gameroom. Mainly be used for dvd's and xbox/xbox 360 gaming. I just completed my latest upgrade on my main system in the living room. I got a used Sunfire 200/5 amp and a new Boston Acoustic preamp. This is my first attempt at seperates and so far I'm very pleased. I listened to my Dark Side of the Moon SACD the other night for the first time and I was simply blown away.

    Hopefully this is ok to post here. With all my upgrades I no longer need my Yamaha RX-V1 flagship receiver. I think it is just too much for my game room and wouldn't be using its full potential. I've had it posted locally for about a month with no offers so it will be going on ebay after the kids go back to school next week. If you are anyone reading this is interested, I'm asking $500 plus whatever shipping/boxing costs. I don't have the original box so I plan to take it to the local shipping store and have them box and ship it. My Sunfire costs around $60 to ship but he packed it himself. I'm thinking it shouldn' cost no more than $80 to pack and ship.

    Good luck with whatever you get.


    Doug
     
  14. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 1999
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    JimiC

    If you think you could live with near-field placement of a subwoofer, for example, next to, or behind your couch, you could get away with a $500 sub.

    Or, rather than thinking about trying to replace both your subwoofer and receiver, concentrate on one thing at a time. For $600 plus shipping, you can get the new SVS PB12NSD. It is way up there in bang for buck.
     
  15. DougEW

    DougEW Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Arthur,

    Do you have the PB12NSD? If you do, I take it you are very pleased with it. Just asking since I'm going to have to buy a new sub. I'm either getting a cheap one for my game room or moving my currrent 10" Paradigm to the game room and upgrading my main home theater.


    Thanks,
    Doug


     
  16. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 1999
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    DougEW

    No, I don't have the PB12NSD. It will not be released untill September. Just eyeing the specs, however, it looks very promising.
     
  17. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2000
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jimi C: If you put that money toward a really good subwoofer instead, I think it will make more difference than the more powerful receiver. Something that almost never gets considered in discussions like this, but that is very important, is the fact that when you get a really powerful subwoofer it offloads a huge amount of the work that your speakers have to do in the bass area. This then frees up the amps in your receiver to concentrate mainly on the mid and upper frequencies, which take far less power than trying to play loud bass. This effectively increases the power available from your receiver (or separate amp) quite a bit. It's like getting a more powerful amp for free. [​IMG] Not only do you have more power available, but the receiver doesn't have to strain as much, so you get cleaner sound. Plus you get vastly better bass for movies. Something like the SVS PB1-NSD would be perfect. [​IMG]
     
  18. Jimi C

    Jimi C Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,209
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ive heard that before, but I dont understand how it works. Do I set the crossover higher? I mean, the sub I currently have has a built in amp. How would my receiver know the difference?
     
  19. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2000
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, the more capable your sub is, the more it can handle with less help from the speakers. Of course, it depends on how loud you want the bass to be able to cleanly play in movies. You could set the receiver at a 100Hz crossover for a powerful sub and let it handle the stuff below there since the sub can put out huge amounts of bass all across that frequency range with no problem. The less your speakers have to do down low, the more power the receiver has available for everything else.
     
  20. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 1999
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jimi

    The way you would do it is by setting all your speakers to Small in your receiver's speaker set-up. Then you would use the crossover knob on your subwoofer (if it has one), and adjust the sub to cover frequencies up to ~80Hz, or, as Lee mentioned, as high as 100Hz. The SVS PB12NSD has such a crossover. At the pre-order price of $600 + delivery, this will give you a night-and-day difference compared to new amplification.

    PS I don't like setting the crossover higher than 80Hz because doing that makes it easy to hear where the subwoofer is located. 80Hz or less is supposed to prevent you from knowing where the bass is coming from.
     

Share This Page