Should I go with a 5.1 or 6.1 receiver

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JaimeC, Nov 1, 2001.

  1. JaimeC

    JaimeC Extra

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    I am building my very first home theater and started to look at the Denon receivers.
    My first question is should i get the 5.1 or the 6.1 receiver. The room in my home which will house the home theater system is very large (about 20 ft. x 30 ft.) and already has the ceiling speakers built in for rear surround.
    I was looking at the Denon #AVR-3802 which has Dolby digital, dolby pro logic II & DTS ES with a Discrete 6.1 A/V receiver. But then I started to look at the next line up, the AVR-4802 which has the THX surround EX/DTS 6.1 Discrete as well. Obviously, the 6.1 costs more but can anyone tell me if its worth the cost difference.
    Lastly, if you were to choose the two most importance pieces of equipment in a home theater that makes or breaks the system, which would you spend most of your money on. I have heard speakers is the first.
    Regards,
    JaimeC
     
  2. NathanP

    NathanP Supporting Actor

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    Hey there!
    That Denon would probably be fine, it's got all the features you'll ever need!
    As for the THX certified one.
    You maybe only tell a slight difference in quality and If this difference is major ($200+) it may not be worth it.
    And definetly I think if your gonna get 6.1, you should get discrete, that realy adds to the experiance.
    5.1 over 6.1? Of course! This is usually what I say:
    "Upgrade now, or upgrade later"
    Good luck!
    Nathan
    ------------------
    "Um, ER, uh, No, it's not a bedroom HT, I just love it so much, I sleep in it."
    "Way to go Dallas!!!"
     
  3. Chad Beaudin

    Chad Beaudin Agent

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    Jamie, I agree with Nathan. I would go with the 6.1 discrete for sure. That is a pretty big room you have there so you are gonna need some pretty hefty speakers as well as a pretty powerful receiver. My buddy just got that Denon 4802 and really loves it. I have an older 3200, my brother-in-law has the 3200,my father-in-law just got the 1600 (i think), and my dad just got the 5800. We are all into HT and over the past 5 years we have just not been able to find very many receivers that compete with Denon. If I were choosing between the 3802 and the 4802 the difference in price would have to be more than a couple hundred to get me to go with the lower 3802. I just hear good things about that 4802
    As for the equipment that is a hard one. You need a good match between your speakers and your receiver. So those two are pretty vital I would say. And you also need, more like want, a good tv/projector. What good is a perfect sounding system when you have a crappy picture. No matter how big it is. For that size of room I would imagine you are gonna need 100+ inches. I am just in the research phase for projectors as well so I can't give a whole lot of advice on that. A buddy of mine is a huge CRT fan and swears by them. I went to a "special showing" (oohhh ahhhh) of the new Sharp DLP projector last week and it was nothing short of awesome. They had it projected out to 133" and the picture was just amazing. It is $10K though which puts it about $9,900 out of my budget [​IMG].
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  4. JaimeC

    JaimeC Extra

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    Thanks Guys,
    I was at Good Guys today and heard the Denon 4802 with Energy Veritas 2.4. speakers .The rep put on some crappy music and could not not really enjoy the sound. she had the volume on too low. I'm not sure but can this receiver push such speakers?
    Can anyone tell me what speakers would be a good match for the Denon 4802? I like the Energy Veritas but the whole surround sound package costs close to $4k. I don't know, I want good speakers for music and movies but I don't want to spend that much money. I heard the Klipse (i don't know what model)are sold alot, are good and affordable.
    Can anyone help? Thanks.
    JaimeC
     
  5. Glenise

    Glenise Supporting Actor

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    I hope this helps.
    Since you are taking about Energy, well I'm using Mirage.
    From what I understand Energy and Mirage are the same company.
    I emailed Mirage a while ago and they said the either Yamaha or Denon receivers go great with their speakers.
    So, I guess the same goes with Energy.
    I'm not sure how much the Denon 4802 costs, but I purchased a Yamaha 5.1 receiver from J and R for $295.
    Yamaha model HTR-5250 is equivalent to another model that they sell at HiFi Buys or www.tweeter.com for $500.
    So, if you're receiver costs more than mine which I'm sure it does, you will have a nice system.
    This is what I did to save some money:
    I bought two Mirage OM-10s at HiFi Buys for $425.
    These speakers are normally $1200 a pair.
    Maybe a HiFi Buys near you still have these or maybe Good Guys has an equivalent model in the Energy brand.
    These are the specs on the OM-10s.
    http://www.miragespeakers.com/specs/om.html
    (The OM-10s have been discontinued so if you can locate some, they are great speakers)
    This is the Yamaha receiver that I have. http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi...R00010HTR-5250
    It works great with the mirage speakers that I have.
    Denon should work well too.
    I didn't want to pay over a certain amoutn for a receiver.
    ------------------
    http://thehometheater.tripod.com
     
  6. Chad Beaudin

    Chad Beaudin Agent

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    Jamie, I had a pair of Klipsch 5.5 towers that consisted of 2 10" woofers and a horn. This pair was about 5 years old and was a relly good match with my Denon. Klipsch speakers are very effecient, my brother was runing some B&W bookshelfs with his Denon that was the same as mine. He would have to have is about 10 notches higher to be at the same volume. My dad was running Deff Tech's all the way around on his setup and I always preffered how his sounded over mine. I ended up selling my Klipschs' after 5 years to a buddy of mine and bought a pair of Deff Tech's. Man the difference is astounding. I am really happy with my sound now.
    Another buddy of mine who I helped get him into HT, got the Denon 3600, and a set of Energy Take 5's. I really like that system and would give it serious consideration for my bedroom setup. But for the size of room you are talking about I would not really think about anything but towers.
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  7. JeremySt

    JeremySt Screenwriter

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    MSRP: AVR3802 $999 110w X 7
    AVR4802 $2500 125x X 7
    They both have the same quality processors,The 4802 has a much more robust power supply, so It could handle a more difficult speaker. Wattage is one thing, but the integrity of the power supply is something that will have a great affect on the receivers abilty to drive several large speakers at loud levels without running out of juice or over heating. I personally prefer a 6.1 setup over both 5.1 and 7.1. These receivers can do both. If you decide that you prefer 5.1, I would seek out an older 5700 or 4800. Both can be got for about $800-1500, and both would out perform the 3802 for overall power. The 4802 could easily drive the Veritas (as could the 3802). Energys are extremely efficient and I personally think they are great. My personal system is AVR3802, Energy EXL speakers all around, and a Martin Logan Sub. I would have defenitly preffered the 4802 and Veritas, but didnt have the $$$.
     
  8. SteveValenti

    SteveValenti Auditioning

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    6.1-definitely! my sony strda777es has been upgraded to 'virtual matrix 6.1' which simulates a center rear, and the difference was way more impressive than i expected, so w/a real ctr.rear, AND a wide/large room, 6.1 would make a big difference. I OWN KLIPSCH, i also sell/like energy.
     
  9. JaimeC

    JaimeC Extra

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    Hi Steve V,
    Thanks for the responese. Tell me about the Klipsch and how it compares to Energy. How much did you pay for your Klipsch and how much for the Energy Veritas 2.4 towers and and the rest of the package? I didn't take down the model numbers for the back, center and sub speaker when I was at Good Guys but I think the pricing went like this:
    1) Veritas Towers: $1700 each
    2) Center: $800
    3) Back: $don't know but prefer di-polar
    4) Sub: $1800
    In anycase the Denon AVR-4802 costa whopping $2500 plus tax or $2700 out the door. That's crazy huh. can anoyone help?
    JaimeC
     
  10. Chad Beaudin

    Chad Beaudin Agent

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    Jamie, I can't comment on the veritas, but for $1700 each you can get a killer pair of def tech bp3000 or something there about. And they ain't no slouchers either. [​IMG]
     
  11. JaimeC

    JaimeC Extra

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    Chad,
    I am not familiar with Def Tech. Can you tell me about them? Is there a website? My budget would be:
    1) towers: $1200 a pair
    2) center: $800
    3) back set: $800 a pair
    4) sub: $400 ea
    5) back center: $300 ea
    Thanks,
    JaimeC
     
  12. SteveValenti

    SteveValenti Auditioning

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    check out: www.klipsch.com and go to the reference series speakers. rf-7's l,r; rc-7 ctr; rs-7 surrounds, and a ksw or rsw sub. i'd put 'em up against ANYTHING! we have energy exl 26 and exl 28p (powered sub in ea. speaker) with the center and surrounds and an energy 12"sub at great prices! check out: www.noav.com
    steve
     
  13. Chad Beaudin

    Chad Beaudin Agent

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    Jamie, now you are going to get alot of "these speakers are better than those speakers". I would not buy any speaker on any one persons suggestions. True Energy's are great speakers, Klipsch are great speakers, there are many great speakers. But go out to your local HT store and demo some. Most good mom and pop stores will let you take a pair home to test drive.
    I would buy def tech's over Energy or Klipsch, but that is because I think they have a more warm, enveloping sound. You may like the crisp highs of Energy speakers, or the big sound of Klipsch. All up to you.
    http://www.definitivetechnology.com/
     
  14. Glenise

    Glenise Supporting Actor

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    JamieC,
    Mirage and Energy are the same company.
    You might be able to find speakers that have the Mirage label at a less expensive price.
    Here's Energy's contact info in the US and Canada:
    http://www.energy-speakers.com/servi...s/service.html
    Here's Mirage's contact info in the US and Canada:
    http://www.miragespeakers.com/contact.html
    Both have the same addresses and phone number.
    If you are going to get a subwoofer try this:
    If you have a HiFi Buys near you, they have the Mirage BPS-400 subwoofer for $799.00
    This model has been discontinued but normally costs $1299.
    This sub has (2) 12" woofers.
    BPS-400
    2-12" Bipolar 400 watt
    use with LFX-1 crossover
    black high gloss
    $1,300 / ea $U.S.
    If you can locate some Mirage OM-10s for $425 normally $1200 a pair you can save some money.
    Hifi Buys also.
    The OM-10s have been discontinued also. http://www.miragespeakers.com/specs/om.html http://www.miragespeakers.com/prices/om.html
    FYI, "The Big Picture DVD" is using Mirage at their east coast facility: http://www.thebigpicturedvd.com/bigpicmain.shtml
    (4) Mirage OM-10s one in each corner, Mirage OM-C2 center and a Mirage Substrata 1500 Watt subwoofer.
    Hope this helps!
    ------------------
    http://thehometheater.tripod.com
    [Edited last by Glenise on November 06, 2001 at 06:02 AM]
     
  15. Scott Page

    Scott Page Stunt Coordinator

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    Jaime,
    Speakers are the most important place to put your $$ IMHO. Of course you have to balance the budget to allow for a decent monitor, reciever, DVD player, etc.
    I suggest trying to audition Paradigm and NHT speakers as well as they are often recommended as very good values. Personally I have a combination of Vandersteen (mains/center) and Paradigm (dipole surrounds). I highly recommend Vandersteen, however they can be more pricey than others. You might consider looking at used speakers. I saved about $1300 on my mains by buying used and could not be happier.
     
  16. NathanP

    NathanP Supporting Actor

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    I love B&W's [​IMG]
     
  17. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Another vote for the NHT Music line of speakers. Good bang vs. buck. Slick looking speakers too. Sound Distributors on-line has a pretty good deal on them. Not authorized, but you could save some money and the company is reputable.
    However, do as others have suggested... audition them personally. Bring a selection of music CDs you are familiar with as well as quality recorded movie DVDs (Fantasia 2000, The Haunting in DTS-ES-- to see if they can take punishment--, Toy Story 2, etc.).
    For music selections bring quite a bit of classical movements with strong dynamics and opera (if you have some) with female singers. That type of sound is very hard for speakers to reproduce. Movie soundtracks, although loud and brash, are sometimes easier as they are synthetic representations of real life with ADR dialog. Pop music is also of lesser quality most of the time and a poor way to audition speakers. In my experience, if they can do classical well, they'll do great with pop music.
    Dan
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    Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!
     
  18. JaimeC

    JaimeC Extra

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    Scott and All,
    I went down to the Paradigm store and auditioned the Def Tech's Towers model #BP3000TL ($4500 a pair) with the center speaker model #CLR3000 ($1000 each) and the surround rear model #BPX ($800 a pair) and they kicked butt. He demoed Star Wars Phatom Menace and showed the race scene. He also had some very expensive pre/pro processor and external amp to go with it. I'm telling u it sounded like i was in the theater. But, back to reality, they are too much $ for my budget.
    So I demoed the Paradigm Studio 80 towers with the same Def Tech rears and no sub-woofer and they sounded really well. I think I will probably get the Paradigm's towers only, the Def Tech rears and a Paradigm sub-woofer (model #PF15PL).
    The rep quoted me the following and I would like to know what u people think:
    1) Pioneer Elite 710 ($5700)
    2) Paradigm Studio 80 Tower Speakers ($1300 a pair)
    3) Paradigm center speaker ($450)
    4) Def Tech Surrounf Rear speakers ($800 a pair)
    5) Def Tech sub-woofer model #PF15PL ($750)
    JaimeC
     
  19. Chad Beaudin

    Chad Beaudin Agent

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    Jamie, is that the Elite Pro-710 television? Funny that my dad just bought his Saturday and is getting it today. That seems like a really good price. I will have to find out what he paid for it. Although I think it was more than that. I am going to be buying his 5 year old Elite Pro-118, 63" tv.
    That sounds like a pretty good setup you got going on there.
     
  20. JaimeC

    JaimeC Extra

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    Chad,
    Yeah, it is the Elite 2000 model which is discontinued now. The 720 model is the latest and has eliminated the full mode lock problem. I'm still trying to bring down the price even further than $5700 but who knows.
    Later,
    JaimeC
     

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