Should I get the Toshiba SD-4800

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Joe Woj, Oct 18, 2002.

  1. Joe Woj

    Joe Woj Agent

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    Am thinking about upgrading my current DVD player and picking up the Toshiba SD-4800. After scoping it out on Best Buy's Website, everything looks great, however, I did some research and discovered that some people have reported a chroma bug with the unit? That did put a little bit of hesitation in me. What are everyone's thoughts about the unit? Any problems? Worth the price etc? Also, be sure to note that am upgrading from a SD-1700, that I've been very pleased with it.
    Best Buy Specs...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jim Golden

    Jim Golden Stunt Coordinator

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    You might also want to check Costco. I saw the equivalent unit (I think it's a toshiba 170?) today for $139.00

    Jim
     
  3. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    I've had one for a week. Best Buy $169.00. Watched about 10 movies on it to try out. My previous model was a JVC XV D723, and the picture on all but one of the movies was *MUCH* better. I'm running progressive, and my monitor is a 55" HDTV. Sample movies were Fifth Element normal, Fifth Element Super-Bit, Monsters Inc., Janet Jackson Hawaii Concert Video, Lord of the Rings, S.W. Ep. I...etc...

    And then I got to Mulin Rouge.

    Horrible scan lines. Absolutely aweful. I've been trying to find some info on whether this is common or not. I'm still on the fence as to whether I'm going to keep it. With the return policy, I may just try some of the other players. But on all the other movies, the picture was absolutely outstanding. Best I've ever seen.
     
  4. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    Whoops...my after re-reading my previous post...it's a little confusing.

    I ment that the Toshiba's picture is *MUCH* better than my old JVC's on all but my Mulin Rouge DVD. Hope that makes more sense.
     
  5. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    OK...me again.

    Now that I put some thought into it...I'm pretty sure it's a *real bad* Chroma bug showing up in Mulin Rouge. But, man...it's *REALLY* bad.
     
  6. Keith Plucker

    Keith Plucker Screenwriter

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    I replaced my old 5109 (first gen Toshiba progressive) with a 4800 and have been extremely happy with it. It does seem to run a bit warmer than the 5109 and initially I thought it was going to be a problem. However, after several weeks of use it seems that heat is not an issue.

    John, your experience is completely opposite of mine. Moulin Rouge was one of my test DVDs when I first got my 4800 and I found the picture on my ISF calibrated TW40X81 to be stunning.

    -Keith
     
  7. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    OK...so I played with it some more this evening. First I manually set the progressive on the Toshiba to 'film' vs 'auto' while playing Mulin Rouge. That seemed to have helped a bit...but it's still generally 'iffy' during serveral scenes...specifically the final dance scene where Nicole is writhing around on the floor. Lots of grain/horizontal scan lines.

    *Now*...that said, the wife wanted to watch 'Oh Brother Where Art Thou', and it also had several scenes where the scanlines appeared.

    When we put in Jimmy Neutron (funny, funny movie, BTW) the picture was absolutely awesome. 10 out of 10. I'm starting to think it may be the DVD's...but would really like to get more input. Now I'm backing away from the Chroma bug theory. It's looking like something else.
     
  8. Joe Woj

    Joe Woj Agent

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    Interesting comments so far. As of now am still undecided though [​IMG]
     
  9. Keith Plucker

    Keith Plucker Screenwriter

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    John, on O'Brother, can you tell me what scenes you saw the problem in? I will check it out on my 4800 and see if I can duplicate it.

    -Keith
     
  10. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    Keith, the effect is in every scene, but I looked again just now, and here are 4 different specific places for you to look:

    Third chapter where the 'Bro's are stuck up in the barn as the 'law' has come to get them...after the barn has been set on fire.

    13:38-Glass's Man's face as the camera pans up.
    14:00-Bearded man's body and face as he first appears on camera.
    14:10-Bearded man again.
    14:30-Close-up of boy's face.

    I check the Chroma bug error on the Fifth Element 'button' and 'Zorg sign' screen and saw no problems. Also checked the 3:2 pulldown bug on the SW Ep. I 'tank' scene. Looks nice and smooth. I'm starting to think that the DVD player may be showing flaw's in the DVD's ???? Could that be it? I dunno. Wierd stuff.

    My monitor is a Mits 55" HDTV that was ISF calibrated in June. Viewing distance is 8 feet...which is pretty close. Probably to close if you ask an 'expert'.
     
  11. Keith Plucker

    Keith Plucker Screenwriter

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    Thanks John, I will check it out in the next day or so and post my findings on this thread.

    -Keith
     
  12. Andrew_Ballew

    Andrew_Ballew Second Unit

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    Sounds like the de-interlacing chip is combing. What chipset is in that player???


    Cheers

    Andrew B.
     
  13. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    Andrew: Haven't the slightest clue.


    I played Toy Story this morning to see if it had the Chroma bug show up in the Woody-at-the-microphone scene. Not only did the Chroma bug show up *REAL BAD*, anywhere else in the film where a bright-red is used, it has a bad Chroma bug effect. Wierd.

    Outside of the Bright-Red...the rest of the picture and resolution is outstanding.
     
  14. Keith Plucker

    Keith Plucker Screenwriter

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    Okay, after watching O'Brother... My experience, as before, seems at odds with John's observations. The picture on O'Brother looked fine to me. Nothing unusual. I paid special attention to the scenes specified but the picture looked great to me. Nothing like the artifacts John reported. The only thing unusual I saw was some shimmering in the clouds at the very beginning during the chain gang scene but that was it.

    I noticed the comments about Toy Story and the chroma bug so I went and rewatched that. Toy Story was another of the DVDs I tested the 4800 on when I first bought it. I didn't recall seeing the bug then but I thought I would rewatch the scene mentioned. All the reds looked fine on my system.

    Maybe it is the size of John's display that makes the imperfections much easier to see. Or maybe something else is going on. However, on my TW40X81, the 4800 is producing a great picture. Joe, if you do buy it, make sure the retailer has a 30 day return policy so you can check it out on your system.

    -Keith
     
  15. Peter Loan

    Peter Loan Second Unit

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    I'm using the 4800 on my Toshiba 50H82 and I couldn't be happier. I don't see anything resembling the picture defects that John has mentioned...makes me believe that he has a defective unit, the player is setup incorrectly, or something is wrong with his display. Not even a cheap $60 Apex DVD player should have the anomalies that John has been having. Anyways, I'm quite happy with the 4800.
     
  16. Bryan "C." A.

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    Actually, in John's defense, I have to agree with MPEG decoder errors. Reds are almost always jagged in the progressive mode. As an interlaced player, that sort of thing does not appear however. Everyone is certain that they have progressive turned on right? Someone once noted, rather abrasively, that you have to do two things to turn on the progressive. I liken it to cruise control in most cars, there is one toggle to activate the ability to use it and another to actually use it. Toshiba, Sony, and Panasonic have gone this route with their newer players (actually Sony has three modes -- always on interlaced, always on progressive, and selectable whereas Panasonic and Toshiba have a progressive enable done in software for the Panasonic and via hardware for the Toshiba, yet still you have to select them to actually display progressive elsewhere in the menus). I cannot recommend the Sony NS755 or NS999ES, since the old SD5109 seems to do better de-interlacing than those models. The Panasonic CP72 performs MPEG decoding properly unlike the Toshiba. That leads me to believe that the RP62, CP67, and RP82 will all perform the same.

    Now to answer Joe, who first posed the question: Should I buy the 4800? If you are going to connect it the same as the SD1700, which I believe is an interlace player and you want the DVD-Audio capability then I would say YES. If you do not need the DVD-A then maybe the 3800 is a better choice. If you have a fairly large television and are going to use component outputs and turn on progressive then you may notice the problem in the chroma, especially with highly saturated colors. That is why animated films such as Toy Story and to some degree O Brother Where Art Thou which, if memory serves, is an intentionally colorized film that was shot in black and white. Films with colorful sets and costumes such as Moulin Rouge and The Fifth Element also top the list.

    For your consideration, here is why I bought the 3800 which the 4800 can do also: it has Zoom reduction capabilities. Why would anyone want to reduce the size of the picture on their screen? Because almost every television and DVD player pixel crops. Your widescreen is still not original aspect ratio as shown in the theaters. In my experience, I am losing about 8%-9% of the original width though very little of the heighth except on anamorphically encoded 1.66:1 material where there is some loss to fit it into a 1.78:1 screen. This benefits standard 1.33:1 screen owners also if they are willing to make their letterbox bands even larger. There is an additional benefit for owners of 1.78:1 widescreen mode capable televisions though. With 4:3 shrink mode activated, Zoom can be used to enlarge non-anamorphically encoded widescreen to fit their television widths while maintaining proper aspect ratio. Writing this review, I realize I forgot to test whether the non-anamorphic picture was already cropped by the player -- doh.

    Finally, some trivia regarding a previous post is that the Toshiba SD5109 is not only first generation, but it was the first progressive player available in the States.
     
  17. John_Mark

    John_Mark Auditioning

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    Bryan,

    Thanks for the info. Very helpfull. What confuses me the most about the player so far is the VAST differences in quality I'm seeing from DVD to DVD. As I said before, with Moulin Rouge, Oh Brother and the color red in Toy Story it's just *bad* in general, although the Toy Story problem appears to be different from that of Moulin and Oh Brother. However, with other movies like Beauty and the Beast, Monster's Inc., Fifth Element, Ronin, Oceans Eleven, SW Ep. I and Shrek (just to name a few that I've watched over the past week or so) the picture is downright A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. The most 'film-like' (sorry for the cheezy reference) I've ever seen. I'm still very, VERY amazed at the textures visible on all the toys in Toy Story that I've never noticed before with my two previous DVD players.

    I'm going to trade this player for another, different, 4800 and see if I get the same results. I'll know in a couple of days.

    For those experts out there...the wierd interlacing problem I'm seeing with Oh Brother and Moulin shows up primarily when there is fair about of movement happening on the screen.
     
  18. JohnSterling

    JohnSterling Stunt Coordinator

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    OK...so for what it's worth...I got another 4800 from Best Buy today. No changes.
     
  19. Keith Plucker

    Keith Plucker Screenwriter

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    I just double-checked to be sure, and yes, the player is set properly in progressive mode.

    I did notice a problem with progressive mode on the Night Stalker DVD. Carl Kolchak is wearing a white jacket with dark grew (or maybe black) vertical stripes. In many of the scenes there is a noticible moire pattern in the stripes in progressive mode. On a whim I tried interlaced mode and the moire virtually disappeared. So that is one mark against the 4800. I think I will add the Night Stalker to my test disc list for future purchase decisions.

    -Keith
     
  20. Brice

    Brice Stunt Coordinator

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    so is everyone trying to say that if we are going to use this player for it's interlaced abilities then it can't be beat for the price? Is the PQ/AQ of the 3800 just as good as the 4800 (is it the same player without DVD-A?)? Is there any players in this price range that I can look at that will beat out the 4800?
     

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