Should I add an SVS to this M&K system?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by PhilS, Nov 23, 2001.

  1. PhilS

    PhilS Stunt Coordinator

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    I have been reading all of the favorable comments about the SVS subs for a long time, and I am wondering whether that would be a good choice for a second sub in my setup, or whether I should stick with what I already have.

    I have a 7.1 system. The fronts and center are the M&K S-150 THX and the four surrounds are the M&K SS-150's. My prepro is a TAGMcClaren Av32R. My current sub is an M&K 125 MKII. My room size is 16 1/2 feet wide and 16 1/2 feet deep on one side, with the back wall on that side only extending across 1/2 of the room. In other works, on the other side of the room the wall goes back 22 feet. So there is like recessed area that is 6 feet deep on one side of the rear of the room. The room has vaulted ceilings starting at eight feet high in the front and rear of the room, extending to a peak of about 15 feet in the middle of the room.

    I am happy with the current setup. It is very good for music and movies are just awesome. (I am using a JVC G-15 projector with a Rock+ and a Stewart GreyHawk screen.) I am thinking though that I might actually benefit from having a second sub. I was initially thinking about adding a second M&K, but I have heard of others who have added an SVS to their M&K system and have been very pleased. Should I add an SVS, and what size would be appropriate? I was thinking of the SVS 25-31PC. I would only be able to put it in the front corner though, with the M&K sub going in the front also, between the center speaker and the left or right front speaker. Would this be a good idea? Thanks in advance for any opinions and suggestions.
     
  2. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

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    Hi Phil,
    Hmm, that's a pretty big room you have there, lots of volume. If I were you, I'd wait
    a few months and get a PC-Ultra (powered CS-Ultra), if you want a powered sub. You could
    really use the extra performance in a room that big. If that's a little too pricey, you
    can go with any of the current PC subs. All the SVS subs are excellent, every objective
    and subjective report on them confirms that. So you can't go wrong. Just get the PC that
    gives you what you want, 25-31 is for max db at common bass levels. 20-39 goes lower, but
    gives a little less db at higher freq. 16-46 gives max deep bass performance with a little
    less db than the 20-39 higher up. You could even get two PC's, if you want a lot more
    bass right now, without waiting on the PC-Ultra. [​IMG]
     
  3. RAF

    RAF Lead Actor

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    I did, and I love it. Check my HT web site for details.
     
  4. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Phil,
    A lot is going to depend on the volume levels you like to watch action oriented DVDs with?
    If you like to approach reference levels for example...adding a 20-39 would make a big improvement I think. In a room as large as yours...it could take a dual 20-39cs/S700 package to really push reference down low though.
    The 125II is a good woof...but it would take 3 of them to approach the clean output you'd get from a dual 20-39/S700 package.(referencing the TN data on both units).
    The one thing to keep in mind, with all speakers set to small...you need 121dBs of subwoofer headroom at reference levels. That's a TON. And if you're looking at >4000 cu-ft...even dual 20-39s might be pushed to their limits on a DVD like TPM for example.(although once they reach their limits...we'd be looking at 3x the mk125 limits[​IMG] )
    TV
     
  5. Hubert

    Hubert Second Unit

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    I see your fronts are THX certified. I'm assuming you're not interested in a full blown THX certified system. Am I correct in that assupmtion?
     
  6. Jimmy P

    Jimmy P Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't want to step on anyone's toes,since there happens to
    be more than a few SVS lovers here.I personally like the sound of M&K subs much more than the sound of SVS subs.
    Its all a matter of sound preference.[​IMG]
     
  7. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Jimmy, no problem...different strokes I guess. I am curious as you which SV you compared to which MK though.

    As far as *thx* subwoofin, I don't see any advantage? The TAG decoder already has the built-in subwoofer lowpass...so the only thing you're getting from a THX in this case is a rolled off bottom end(and who is going to want that)? Unless it's a new thx II woof which is supposed to extend down to the 20hz range I think(approx the same as the 20-39)?
     
  8. PhilS

    PhilS Stunt Coordinator

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    Tom, I probably only have room for one more sub given my room layout. Would you recommend going with the 20-39 or the 16-46? I don't usually listen at reference levels, since I frequently watch with my wife and kids. Generally, I set my TAG pre-pro to -5db below reference. I am assuming that I will get better performance in the lower regions with the SVS than another M&K, which is why I was considering the SVS. I was also assuming that two subs would be better than one even at non-reference levels. Looking at Robert Fowkes site, he has a similar setup to me and he crossed over the 16-46 at 50hz, which seems like it would make sense.

    Hubert, all of my speakers are THX certified, as are my amps and my pre-pro. I am not concerned about being THX-certified just for the label, but is there something particular that you think I would lose by adding a non-THX sub in this setup?

    Jimmy, can you elaborate more on your preference for M&K vs. the SVS subs. Why do you prefer the former, and what experience have you had with the two brands?
     
  9. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Phil,

    if you're looking for maximum performance from a single enclosure...our CS_Ultra is the way to go. If you're looking for maximum impact gained by adding either the 20-39 or the 16-46...I'm guessing the 16-46 will be your best bet. It's going to add a low of 1st octave bass to your DVD collection(not to mention any pipe organ recordings you may have around?).

    TV
     
  10. Jimmy P

    Jimmy P Stunt Coordinator

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    Here is my $.02
    Iam very interested in accurate sound,be it music or movies.
    The latter being probably not as accurate as you might think
    since most movie sound is created by people mimicking what
    something should sound like.
    I find that SVS subs do not have the tonal accuracy i desire,and when i do get them to perform reasonably well or at least to my liking,there is not much of the frequecy band left to reinforce.
    I dont want to slam anybody here,but most people are interested in sheer volume or get excited when their windows rattle,people are even putting buzzers in their furniture to enhance the movie experience,hey its all good.
    Me i want accuracy,the M&K subs do that for me.I have a friend who is an owner of a hi-end store,he lets me audition alot of hardware.My favorite home theater sub however,is the Mirage BPS400,it is a work of art
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

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    Jimmy,

    I see where you're coming from on the issue of accuracy, as opposed to brute force. But, if

    I'm not mistaken, I've read quite a few comments from various places that the SVS subs

    deliver not only very powerful bass, but also very clean precise bass.

    I'd be curious to hear from other SVS owners who have also owned M&K subs or other quality

    subs and see whether they feel the SVS subs have lots of low bass power but are not as accurate

    or musical as an M&K or other sub in the same general price range.

    Everyone seems to agree that the SVS subs deliver serious bass, but let's find out what

    SVS owners (or those that have had a chance to listen at length to a properly setup SVS

    at someone's house) have to say specifically about the accuracy and precision of the

    bass the SVS subs put on when playing music. Are they as accurate and delicate as they are powerful?
     
  12. Jimmy P

    Jimmy P Stunt Coordinator

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    Lee-C
    Yes i agree that SVS subs have power and are clean sounding.
    But i feel they are off in tone,which for me seems to corrupt anything i may listen too useing a SVS sub.
    I have read alot of posts,and yes there is alot of support for SVS here, but that doesnt make them the best.
    Tom and company have done alot of work with their product.
    Iam sure he learns something new everyday about his product and is always thinking of ways to make it better.
    His product just isnt quite there for me at this time.
    Its just an opinion,and opinions are just like you know what,everyones got one.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. RAF

    RAF Lead Actor

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    Jimmy's comments are one of the reasons that I choose to keep my M&K 350 SW when I purchased my SVS 16-46PC. I preferred the way that the M&K handled stuff in the, say, 30-80Hz range (THX crossover) but I preferred the way that the SVS handled the sub-human (
     
  14. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Jimmy, again no problem with having your POV. There's 20k plus members in this forum...so no one product is ever going to sound like nirvana to every single one of us.

    I'm still curious as to what SV was compared to what MK on your end,but it isn't a big deal.

    I'm guessing,but I think part of the *different sound* with the SVs might be due to someone being used to subwoofers that don't extend deeply/flatly...particularly as the volume levels increase. There's plenty of quality subwoofers to choose from though...so if svs isn't doing it for someone there's always alternatives to consider.

    TV
     
  15. EricN

    EricN Stunt Coordinator

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    Phil, I have the M&K 150's for the fronts and 2 pair of the ss-150 for the side and rear surrounds. I also have the M&K 150 THX sub for the set. I added an SVS 16-46PC sub several months ago and have never looked back! I have the speakers set to small on my Denon 5800 and then have the subs set for the SVS at 50hz and below and the M&K from 50hz to 80hz. It is a seamless combination and works great! [​IMG]
    I have to admit I am eyeing the new SVS SS line for next years upgrade fever. I am sure I can find room for the current subs in another setup around the house.
    You will find the SVS line to be a great compliment to your M&K's. I would go for it! [​IMG]
    Eric
     
  16. KevinHunt

    KevinHunt Stunt Coordinator

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    Phil, I guess I'll chime in also. I have a 5.1 set-up with 150s across the front with surround 550s on the sides. I use an EAD Ovation 8 pre/pro. With this system, I used to have 2 MX125s stacked in the same location. My room size is approx. 13'Wx25'Dx8'H. After all of the SVS buzz started, I decided to order dual 16-46s with the Samson amp to compare. My unscientific testing consisted of 2 channel music and of course several bass heavy DVDs(Titan A.E., Matrix, Haunting, TS2) Musically I thought the SVS subs were dead even with the 125s, no better no worse. With movies, the 125s are great but just can't compete with the SVS subs down low. The 125s would never lose control or clip but would get a tad sloppy with the likes of Haunting, and I always had the 125s at 75dBs. I could bump the 16-46s a few dBs and would still get clean, loud and low bass from any soundtrack. I've heard of many bottoming out their SVSs, but I have yet to do so. I don't listen at reference either but as loud as I can take it in my theater. The SVS subs were a hands down winner in my case. If you do decide to try out the SVS subs I would recommend a dual package. If that works for you, great. Sell the 125 and be happy. While you have them you can also experiment with one of the SVSs in conjunction with your 125 and see if that floats your boat, then ship back one SVS for a refund and your only out shipping. Definitley personal preference, but I like many others would sure recommend trying them out.
     
  17. Jimmy P

    Jimmy P Stunt Coordinator

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    Tom,

    This is in response to your question:

    The SVS model was the 16-46CS with a Sampson S700 amp.

    The M&K model is the MX350 MKII THX.

    These posts have been interesting to say the least.

    Its also interesting to note that in posts which people

    know what im talking about suggest running the SVS subs

    below the M&K subs.
     
  18. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Tom,

    This is in response to your question:

    The SVS model was the 16-46CS with a Sampson S700 amp.

    The M&K model is the MX350 MKII THX.>>These posts have been interesting to say the least.

    Its also interesting to note that in posts which people

    know what im talking about suggest running the SVS subs

    below the M&K subs.
     
  19. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

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    Come on you SVS owners (there are, no doubt, tons here on the HTF [​IMG] ), let's hear your opinions
    on this issue. Do you think the SVS subs exhibit superb tonal accuracy when playing music
    (comparable to M&K and other quality subs in the same general price range or even higher) to match
    the sheer bass power they certainly have?
     
  20. PhilS

    PhilS Stunt Coordinator

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    Eric and Robert, this is probably a stupid question but how do you set the M&k sub so that it handles the range of 50 to 80 Hz? I now have the crossover in my pre-pro set at 80 Hz, so I understand that everything below 80 Hz goes to the M&K right now. If I add the SVS, I understand I can set the SVS to handle everything below 50 Hz. How do I set the M&K so it does not go below 50 Hz? Also, I assume I just use a Y-adapter to split the signal from the pre-pro to the two subs?
     

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