SHOOTOUT! DVD-R vs. DVD+R

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brian Ruth, Jun 30, 2002.

  1. Brian Ruth

    Brian Ruth Supporting Actor

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    Now that the prices are coming down on DVD Recorders, I was thinking about getting one.

    But which standard do you guys think is better? I don't want to be stuck with the next Beta.
     
  2. Michael St. Clair

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    My personal opinion is a unit that does DVD-R and DVD-RAM is the 'best'. Preferably with a hard drive thrown in to boot.
     
  3. JoeyB

    JoeyB Agent

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    So far, DVD-R has been the better bet. Good compatibility with DVD players, more availability, cheaper discs. But watch out - I've heard that some large computer companies are starting to push DVD+R. The smoke hasn't cleared yet.
     
  4. Bill Adlhoch

    Bill Adlhoch Stunt Coordinator

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    any possibility of a combo unit?

    is it true that most regular dvd players wont play the "RW" version of either format?
     
  5. Michael St. Clair

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    Sony will have a recorder that will definitely do -R/W, and may do +RW if they decide to 'throw the switch'.
     
  6. Jeffrey Chin

    Jeffrey Chin Second Unit

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    WAIT FOR THE DVD RECORDERS W/ HDD BUILT IN.
    it's out in japan already..due in US sept 2002!!!
    current dvd recorders don't have digital audio or hard drive for $600
    the link below is the debut of dvd recorders w/ built in 40gb hard drive + digital audio
    so u can do edits before you make your final burn onto dvd-r!
    how awesome is that
    price: ~$1200 retail
    CLICK HERE
     
  7. Brian Ruth

    Brian Ruth Supporting Actor

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    Jeff -- I'm not too keen on paying $1200 for a DVD-Recorder with a Hard Drive. I can upgrade my computer with a DVD-R drive and a big-ass HD (100GB or thereabouts) for under a thousand, and it will proaby have 5 or 6 times the HD space of these other units. Paired with my AIW video card, I think I'll be set.
     
  8. Joe_H

    Joe_H Screenwriter

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    I actually don't know much on the subject, but I heard that DVD+RW discs are supposed to be more compatible on a standalone DVD player than a DVD-RW disc.
     
  9. Winston Walker

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    Well, everything i have 'read', and seen on tv suggests that the -r/rw is the most compatible. Check the latest issue of DV magazine for an extensive test they did.

    Out of the 5 dvd recordable formats, the +rw came in dead last in ALL the tests. The formats being...

    3.95 dvd-r for authoring
    4.7gb dvd-r for authoring
    4.7gb dvd-r for general (pioneer, apple, etc)
    4.7gb dvd-rw (pioneer, apple, etc)
    4.7 dvd+rw

    Also, the Pioneer A04 is now going for $255.00, and you
    can get a 100 gig HD for under $200.00 now.

    Winston
     
  10. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    Article from dv.com. (The site requires registration but registration is free.)
    Overall results:
    3.95 GB DVD-R: 96-100% compatibility (depending on the definition of compatibility)
    4.7 GB DVD-R Authoring: 67-86%
    4.7 GB DVD-R General Use: 66-87%
    4.7 GB DVD-RW: 52-58%
    4.7 GB DVD+RW: 50-56%
    Results if you look a 2001 and 2002 DVD players only:
    3.95 GB DVD-R: 100%
    4.7 GB DVD-R Authoring: 94%
    4.7 GB DVD-R General Use: 93%
    4.7 GB DVD-RW: 89%
    4.7 GB DVD+RW: 80%
    We should exclude DVD-R 3.95, and DVD-R 4.7 Authoring, since these are not really consumer formats. What we can conclude is that DVD-R 4.7 General is significantly more compatible than DVD-RW or DVD+RW, but so far we can't make a real conclusion about DVD+R since it was not included in the test (because the drives were not available at the time of testing). My guess is that DVD+R compatibility will be slightly less overall than DVD-R 4.7 General, but it will be in the same ballpark.
     
  11. Ian Montgomerie

    Ian Montgomerie Stunt Coordinator

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    Another factory to consider, is that as recorders become more popular, plain old players will be released with more and more compatibility for the new format. For example, right now with a recorder you have two types of recording mode. There is "VR mode", which can only be played on the recorder, and "Video mode" which gives you much less options but can be played on many DVD players. But as recorders become more popular, manufacturers will increasingly ship DVD players with VR playback support. I think over the next couple of years, you will see an explosion of Japanese and even Korean players capable of playing even VR-mode DVD-RAM, let alone Video-mode DVD-R or DVD-RW. It is a logical feature for manufacturers to add, as they start pushing recorders to the mass market. It is logical that anything a new Manufacturer Y recorder can record, will at least play on all Manufacturer Y's new players.
     
  12. Danny R

    Danny R Supporting Actor

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    VCDhelp has a pretty good database of what players accept what formats. Obviously this is only a very crude survey, but it does illustrate a few details. Thus far:

    116 accept +R
    242 accept +RW
    82 players accept +R, +RW

    This large of a gap between +RW and +R (and -R) is due to the newness of +R I believe. Not enough testing has been done yet to confirm its compatability. From everything I've read, +R should be much more compatable than +RW. We'll wait and see.

    446 accept -R
    241 accept -RW
    227 players accept -R, -RW

    Pretty obvious from this that -RW is much less compatable than -R. Also interesting to note that even though -RW has been on the scene longer, it has about the same number of compatable players as +RW. This seems to show that the two formats are about equally compatable.

    137 accept -RW and +RW
    107 accept -R and +R
    56 accept -R, -RW and +R, +RW

    from this data it appears that many players tend to use one format of -RW or +RW, but not both. Again, too early to say about the compatability of +R.

    In my opinion, if you are going to go for a Recorder, then you should look at what types of standalone players you are likely to own now and in the future, and in general see what format they tend to support.
     
  13. Winston Walker

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    Well, While VCDhelp is a great resource, you have to take that compatibilty listing with a huge grain of salt. ;-)

    I think you havre to tae into account that folks can be
    making bad discs, and assuming they dont work in their players, hence you get a lot of conflicting data in almost every model of player tested.

    The DV magazine testing clearly showed that both record-once formats are FAR more compatible to the re-recordable types.

    I think any new players will have a good chance in being compatible with either -R or +r media.

    However, i wonder if player manufacturers are testing their models with +R/+RW, since it's not part of the DVD standard?

    Win
     
  14. Joe_H

    Joe_H Screenwriter

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    Alright well I stand corrected. That being said, I would still wait for a format to be chosen by all manufacturers.
     
  15. Winston Walker

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    I dont know that is ever gonna happen, to be honest.

    You have DVD-R/RW , which is supported by the DVD folks,
    and you have +R/RW, which is supported by some. I honestly
    think that SONY, HP, Phillips started the PLUS format, so
    they could reap the profits from the licensing fees.

    Spoke to the Pioneer rep at the recent DVexpo, and he
    says that SONY is now gonna put DVD-R/RW drives in
    their VAIO line.

    I have an early VAIO system with a Pioneer a03 installed,
    but they dsicountined the line, and starting putting in
    the DVD+R/RW drives. Now it looks like they are back to
    the -R/RW drives.

    Maybe they will have some systems with -R, and some
    with +R?

    Win
     
  16. Michael St. Clair

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  17. Winston Walker

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    what exactly is DVD-Multi ??
     
  18. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    DVD Multi 1.0 is a set of standards set forth by the DVD Forum.
    In a nutshell:
    For read, it requires standard DVD, DVD-R (for General), DVD-RW, DVD-RAM read capability.
    For write, it requires DVD-R (for General), DVD-RW, DVD-RAM write capability.
    The first true DVD-Multi Write PC burner is the new Panasonic to be released in the fall. I don't know when the first DVD-Multi Write set top recorders will be available.
    There are already several PC drives and set top DVD players that will read DVD-RW, DVD-R, and DVD-RAM, but I'm not sure if the DVD Multi read specification technically requires the capability to read DVD-RAM with a cartridge. (I didn't bother to read the entire specification. I'll let somebody else do that. [​IMG] It's moot in some ways though, since DVD-RAM with removable cartridges are commonplace anyway these days.
    +RW/+R are not part of the DVD Multi specification, because they are competing formats from the DVD Alliance (which is different from the DVD Forum).
     
  19. Winston Walker

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    Ah, thanks..so the major diff is that this now includes the ability to read/write DVD-RAM as well?

    Win
     
  20. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    Yes for DVD-RAM, but also certification to read DVD-R and DVD-RW. If it has the DVD Multi logo, it will read all three formats. The problem is right now if you buy a DVD player you have no way of knowing if DVD-R or DVD-RW read is supported. Even though most players read DVD-R (and DVD+R), it's still a crap shoot. My mom just bought a player last year which refuses to play DVD-R, whereas my sister's much older DVD players work with it. Furthermore, DVD-RW compatibility (like DVD+RW compatibilty) is much worse. Even today, a good 3rd of DVD players do not support DVD-RW.
     

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