Shiva vs. Titantic, need some advice.

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Marc_D, Jan 30, 2001.

  1. Marc_D

    Marc_D Extra

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    There are tons of rave reviews for the Shiva, but not much on the Titantic. Has anyone used the Titantic driver with bad results? I have been comparing the Titantic and the Shiva two via WINISD in a 5.16 cu-ft vented enclosure (existing) tuned to 18Hz for the Shiva and 16Hz for the Titantic, and the Titantic looks like a better performing driver in the SPL department and low frequency response, but the group delay graphs is quite different. Is group delay a good measure of tightness vs boominess? If so the Shiva looks like tighter bass, but not as low or loud. The Titantic in a sealed 5.16ft enclosure looks pretty good as well.
    Can someone with a more experience/a better modeling program compare these drivers and give me some advice on which is better for my application. This will be used 50/50 music and HT in a pre-existing 5.16cu-ft downfiring enclosure.
    Also any insight to why not very many people use the Titantic? price, supplier (Adire gives great support), PE?
    If anyone has used both and has a subjective view, I would love to get an response or e-mail from you.
    [email protected]
    Thanks,
    Marc D
     
  2. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    >Is group delay a good measure of tightness vs boominess?
    ====
    Correct, less is good, until it's shoved down below our hearing acuity. IOW, as long as the GD is gone by ~35Hz, the average person doesn't 'hear' it regardless of how bad it is.
    ====
    >If so the Shiva looks like tighter bass, but not as low or loud. The Titantic in a sealed 5.16ft enclosure looks pretty good as well.
    ====
    The Shiva's fractionally louder down to 20Hz, but you're limited to ~19Hz tuning Vs the TT's 16Hz. Once you factor in VC heating, the Shiva's GD goes up, as does the TT's, pushing it too high for me.
    ====
    Also any insight to why not very many people use the Titantic? price, supplier (Adire gives great support), PE?
    ====
    I can only speculate, but Avatar (Adire) brought out the Shiva to one-up the NHT1259 in the lowest octave, while allowing more design flexibility. Once everyone saw how successful it was in the marketplace, others jumped on the bandwagon, too late. [​IMG]
    GM
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    Loud is beautiful, if it's clean
     
  3. Anthony F.

    Anthony F. Stunt Coordinator

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    Marc,
    I'm using a Titanic sub and have been VERY happy with it. I looked at the Shiva also, and I think reached the same conclusions you did--the Shiva looked better for a ported design, the Titanic looked better for a sealed design. I wanted a sealed sub so I went with the Titanic (I'm assuming we're talking about the Titanic 1200).
    What application are you going for. With a Titanic sub in a greater than 5cu. ft. sealed enclosure, it would seem that you're going for a really low Q design, which is inconsistent with the idea of 50/50 HT/Music.
    For whatever reason, the WinISD numbers come up with a much bigger box than needed for the Titanic sub. If you aim for an enclosure of around 3.3 cu. ct. for the Titanic, you should be right around Q=.7. If you decide on the Titanic, go to the Parts Express site and download their box builder software, which will give you more reasonable numbers for this driver. With this driver in a sealed cabinet, I get in-room response down to the low 20s. If you want infrasonic, I'd do with a Shiva in a big ported cabinet. Good luck!
     
  4. Dan M~

    Dan M~ Second Unit

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    Also, take note that the Titanic is not recomended for a down firing design. The Shiva can be used in any orientation. Thus the Titanic should not be used in a vertical "sono" design.
    FYI,
    -Dan
     
  5. Marc_D

    Marc_D Extra

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    Anthony,
    The Titantic even looks better in a ported enclosure. The "down low" response is better with the TT down to -6db, and the TT does it all louder.
    My comparison is based on a 5.16cu-ft ported enclosure. Shiva tuned to 18Hz (recommended), and TT tuned to about 16Hz.
    The GD of the TT has a 18ms peak about 32hz, but does not hit 18ms until about 17hz, where the Shiva is off the chart at that point. The Shiva is at 18ms at about 25hz. At the recommended tuning point for the Shiva (18Hz) in a 5.16cu-ft enclosure, the GD is already off the chart.
    If I understand correctly when the GD gets to high, the driver losses control of itself and fluctuates, pop, cracks, and distorts. I don't know at what point that happens, but it looks like it will happen 10Hz quicker on the Shiva. At what point does the GD become unacceptable in terms of distortion and driver damage potential?
    The Shiva's GD is off the chart at it's tuning frequency (18Hz), and the TT is at about 21ms at its's tuning freq. (16Hz).
    Is this my my Shiva based sub loses control of itself at high volumes and low freq? [​IMG]
    Titan AE almost killed my sub. [​IMG]
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  6. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Marc
    Download the free LspCAD program from the Adire site. Then compare the Shiva model in LspCAD, vs the same model in WinISD. Be sure in LspCAD in the "driver unit config" to turn on three items in "additional analysis" section. Also for ported designs check "sim port nonlinearity" This will give you a basis for comparing the 2 modeling programs.
    You can fixate on GD all day, or you can reread what Greg posted about it.
    The Shiva has an extremely stiff carbon fiber reinforced cone, and it won't have cone breakup problems that are usually associated with poly cones. This issue doesn't show up on any software model [​IMG]
     
  7. Marc_D

    Marc_D Extra

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    The T/S parameters for the Shiva on LspCAD do not match the white paper provided by Adire? [​IMG]
    I plugged in the T/S from the LspCAD into WinISD and got some very strange results.
    Which is correct for the newest Shiva driver?
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  8. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    I recall the parameters in LspCAD are "per coil".
    LspCAD has the correct ones since Adire inputted them there. [​IMG]
    Julian
     

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