Shiva MKII vs. Dayton "DVC" 12 in 108 liter enclosure

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tyler, Jul 15, 2001.

  1. Tyler

    Tyler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What subwoofer would sound better in a 108 liter sonosub with a fine tune of 25 HZ and the AVA150 Plate amp.
    This design would be for mostly movies and some music.
    Which one of these woofers would have deeper cleaner & louder bass in the 108 liter sonotube with the ava150 plate amp .
    I just moved into our new house and i now have a huge theater room and the Hsu VTF-2 just does not add the loud rumble i'm looking for more SPL & lower bass.
     
  2. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Messages:
    1,055
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  3. Rick Chwiendacz

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would tend to say the Dayton DVC actually. The Dayton DVC series is pretty much a clone of Adire's Shiva/Tempest line. As far as I know, both are manufactured by Eminence.
    Having said that, the Dayton DVC has a stronger motor than the Shiva (mostly due to the use of a 112oz magnet versus 60 oz on the Shiva) which results in it being almost a full 2dB/W/M more efficient, while keeping the same Fs as the Shiva.
    The Vas is also only 2/3 that of the Shiva, making it even easier to stick in a tiny sealed emclosure.
    Qes is also a touch lower than on the Shiva, and BL is considerably higher, again reflecting the stronger motor.
    The cones are in essence the same - kevlar epoxy coated paper.
    Another nice thing about the Dayton DVC is that it has more linear xmax as well (16.4mm versus 15.8mm) - and that xmax was independently tested by Dumax labs - the Dayton DVC even comes with a full Dumax report. Something very few drivers do these days.
    Also note that the advertised Sd is higher for the Dayton DVC than on the Shiva (506 versus 480), but I'm willing to bet that they use the same cone/surround profiles so this is really a non-issue.
    If anyone disagrees with me, please post comments. [​IMG]
    - Rick
    [Edited last by Rick Chwiendacz on July 15, 2001 at 11:01 PM]
     
  4. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Rick,
    I choose the Shiva! [​IMG] I have modeled
    "Tyler's box" via LspCAD just to see the differences and it looks as though the Shiva models better. I used the DUMAX results for both drivers and a 4th [email protected]
    12" Results:
    [​IMG]
    There's a difference with the drivers..
    Whereas....
    Comparing the 15" drivers:
    [​IMG]
    The 15" drivers are very close to one another.
    __________________
    I would tend to say the Dayton DVC actually. The Dayton DVC series is pretty much a clone of Adire's Shiva/Tempest line. As far as I know, both are manufactured by Eminence.
    Given my the results that were "simmed" this doesn't seem to be the case. Yes, I agree that they are both manufactured by Eminence so is the Atomic Thunder Shocker II.
    Having said that, the Dayton DVC has a stronger motor than the Shiva (mostly due to the use of a 112oz magnet versus 60 oz on the Shiva) which results in it being almost a full 2dB/W/M efficient, while keeping the same Fs.
    I don't think the weight of the magnet has any bearing as it's not that dramatic in differences. The sensitivity issue different from my experiences as the PE DVC clone is actually 2dB lower than the Shiva when using LspCAD to figure the "real" sensitivity.
    Also, the vas is only 2/3 of that of the Shiva, making it even easier to stick in a tiny box.
    I agree the Vas is smaller but for some reason it's not modeling very well.
    Qes is also a touch lower than on the Shiva, and BL is considerably higher, again reflecting the stronger motor.
    Qes:
    Shiva .41 ; PE DVC: .37
    BL: VC in SERIES
    Shiva: 21.6 ; PE DVC: 26.2
    Now look at both of their figures and now we can see why Dan points out that "Qes" is an indicator of motor strength! [​IMG]
    The cones are in essence the same - kevlar epoxy coated paper.

    I think the PE one uses a bigger dustcap.
    Another nice thing about the Dayton DVC is that it has more linear xmax as well (16.4mm versus 15.8mm) - and that xmax was independently tested by Dumax labs - the Dayton DVC even comes with a full Dumax report. Something very few drivers do these days.

    I agree. Adire also has their DUMAX results in their White Paper.
    Also note that the advertised Sd is higher for the Dayton DVC than on the Shiva (506 versus 480), but I'm willing to bet that they use the same cone/surround profiles so this is really a non-issue.
    [​IMG]
    ------------------
     
  5. Rick Chwiendacz

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Rick: "Also, the vas is only 2/3 of that of the Shiva, making it even easier to stick in a tiny box."
    Julian: "I agree the Vas is smaller but for some reason it's not modeling very well."

    After some thinking, I realize that I should have said tiny "sealed" box. Playing with the parameters, the vas is exactly what is the major difference between the Shiva and the Dayton DVC. The lower VAS of the Dayton DVC is what makes the Shiva model a little better in that particular vented box.
    Also keep in mind that 150W is really not much for both of these two drivers in such a box - they can both handle a considerable amount more, as long as the energy is concentrated above the tuning frequency, of course.
    Personally if I were to buy a driver, I'd pick the Dayton DVC, but Julian Data is indeed right that in Tyler's box, the Shiva does model slightly better.
    Interesting however is that I modeled the two drivers in unibox, and I didn't get the large discrepancy above 30hz that Julian did. They modeled very close to each other (+/-1dB) throughout the entire frequency range.
    Any idea as to why this is?
    - Rick Chwiendacz
     
  6. Rick Chwiendacz

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One more thing of note. Wayne Jaeschke ofhttp://www.speakerbuilder.net
    - Rick
     
  7. Tyler

    Tyler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Can a Shiva MKII in a 115 liter cabinet tuned to 25Hz or 20Hz and got fed 150 watts rms into 4 ohms sound comparable to a SVS 25-31PC ????
    This info would help out alot thanks
     
  8. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 1999
    Messages:
    4,948
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've recommended that PE 12" DVC on a few occasions (to no avail [​IMG] ), it really seems an excellent driver looking at the Dumax numbers. Models very nicely in something as small as a 1.2cu.ft. Q = 0.7 cab.
    Here's a post from Paul at PE concerning the Shiva/PE 12" DVC in reponse to my inquiry about the similarity. This is according to PE, fwiw:
    quote: Adire came out with the Shiva before we introduced the 12" DVC. We came out with the 15" DVC before Adire released the Tempest.
    The way I understood it, Dan Wiggins came up with the Shiva concept and worked with an Eminence engineer to design it. Sort of 'this is what I want', then it was up to Eminence to produce it.
    Eminence changed some design parameters, which they felt were improvements, and that became the DVCs. Like Tony said, both are outstanding drivers and we have the upmost respect for Dan Wiggins and his concept. Without him, the Shiva and DVC drivers would have never happened. [/quote]
    Rick already pointed out these differences (rather excellently...nice to have you aboard).
    And the link provided by Rick to speakerbuilder.net is an outstanding resource. Wayne J. is one of the most knowledgeable and emminently readable speaker gurus on the 'net (or in print, for that matter).
    Tyler, now it's 115 l? Like I said, make up your mind so people don't waste their time. Nice people took their time to model in the enclosure you specified. Maybe you could sell your "Hsu" and get a better amp.
    [Edited last by Jack Gilvey on July 16, 2001 at 07:59 AM]
     
  9. DanWiggins

    DanWiggins Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  10. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    408
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Rick,
    Yeah, you should've said "tiny". [​IMG] No problem though.
    Any idea as to why this is?
    I take it you used the same DUMAX'd results?
    I don't know if Kristian models BL non-linearity, Cms non-linearity, Sim port nonlinearity and VC heating in Unibox.
    ------------------
     
  11. Tyler

    Tyler Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jack,
    I'm gonna sell the hsu and maby buy the apex seinor which has 350 watts rms into 4 0hms or go with the AVA250
     

Share This Page