Sherbourn/Aragaon/Paradigm Question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Chas_T, Jun 3, 2002.

  1. Chas_T

    Chas_T Supporting Actor

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    A question on Pricing and Equipment Mix. Thanks are always in advance.

    I am thinking of purchasing a SHERBOURN 5/1500 3 Channel amp privately Does anyone have any ideas on the price range of these amps?

    My system is as follows:

    Paradigm 90P's Ver. 2 - Fronts
    Paradigm CC350 Ver. 2 - Center
    Paradigm Mini Monitors Ver. 2 - Surrounds
    Aragon 8002 - Powering fronts
    Sony STR DA777ES powering center and rears and also for pre-amp

    I am not sure if this combo Sherbourn/Aragaon/Paradigm will match. I listen to music/home theater 50-50%. I also am not a high power kind of guy who likes his music really loud. I listen to classical, new age and some older rock music.

    However, my concern is that in the future, (2-3 years) my intentions are to move to Dynaudio speakers and prefer to buy amps that last for a prolonged period of time.

    Yet, dealing in the present tense and considering the future, do you think this would be a good fit/balance taking into consideration Paradigm/Aragon with the Sherbourn if I decided to make the purchase?

    Thanks to all who respond.
     
  2. Jeff PB

    Jeff PB Agent

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    I am not sure of how the Sherbourn will match with your equipment but my 1500A is an excellent performer. One tip, though - this amp will benefit greatly from an upgraded, heavy gauge power cord. The power cord can be DYI.
     
  3. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

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    Jeff, I have the 1500a as well. Could you tell me a little more about the power cord and what you did? Also, what did the power cord improve.

    A 3 channel Sherbourn should do fine with Paradigm speakers. New, the 3 channel Sherbourn should be around $1200 retail but could be found for around $800. Used, depending on age, around $650 would be great price. I haven't dealt or seen many 3 channel Sherbourns so I am just going on what the 5 channel version costs minus the 2 channels. You could just use the Sherbourn with the center and rears if you think the Aragon is better for the fronts but I would try both amps for the front, you may be surprised.
     
  4. Jody C Robins

    Jody C Robins Stunt Coordinator

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    Chas
    I have been thrilled with the performance of my 5/1500A. If you email me, I can give you the info for my dealer, who gave me a GREAT deal.
    [email protected]
     
  5. Mike_T_

    Mike_T_ Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the 5 channel amp from Sherbourn...what's the deal with the power cord? I'd love to hear that as well.
     
  6. Jeff PB

    Jeff PB Agent

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    Things can vary from system to system but, on my system all I can say is that the power cord upgrades have made an incredible difference.

    Prior to the upgrades, on demanding music (very fast attacking type bursts) something in the system was causing some distortion. The distortion was most noticable on my system as a ringing or harshness in the high frequencies. For instance, during certain screaming guitar solos, they would hurt the ears. I knew damn well that was not the recording and something in my system was amiss or not up to par to handle the speed of these bursts. Try Big Sugar album with "kickin Stones" track one guitar solo at end of song and numerous other songs on that album. Also SRV material.

    Well I had always been rather skeptical on power cord improvements but the stock flimsy power cord on the Sherbourn is 16ga. I thought to myself with its five seperate power supply, monoblock design, if anything may be able to benefit then this amp would. So first I order a $5 dollar 14ga sheilded Volex power cord to replace the stock 16ga. Oh my god I was on to something as the music began to smooth out. There were still remnants of some harshness left, but things were much improved.

    Next I decided to build a thicker cord myself, and this time go unshielded as most sources I have checked seem to think that is best for an amp. So I went to Home Depot and got a Leviton nylon plug ($10) and 7ft of SJOOW 12x3 ($7). I order a Wattgate IEC on the net ($20). This was my first DYI cord, but it was easy to stip the wire and screw in the connectors. Now my system has arrived - the extreme harshness has been vanquished and everything sounds so good it is really incredible.

    I really thought most of my problems were with the CD player or the recordings but to my surprise the Sherbourn just needed to get more juice faster. And most of my listening is just two channel so imagine the requirements when the 1500a is pumpin all five monoblocks. I know what people say about the power coming from the torroids and so what difference could the cord make? but that is just too simplistic.

    Just do what I did and get the $5 14ga Volex and see if you can hear a difference. If not, little is lost. Or be brave and take the DYI step and build a thick cord for around $40-50. I suspect you will not be disappointed.

    I am now waiting on some parts to build a 10ga for the amp. Then I will move the prior 12ga cord to the subwoofer (HSU-vtf2) where I think I am hearing benefits as it inherits the prior Sherbourn cords - first the original 16ga, and subsequently the Volex 14ga (note the vtf2 stock cord is 18ga).

    I am now a believer in the benefits of better power cords, at least for amps. I will continue to go DYI on this item and likely experiment with other components at some point.

    One other thing to mention about the Sherbourn. Based on what I have exprienced I have little doubt that ideally it could use its own dedicated 20amp circuit.

    I expect my prior amp could have used this upgrade as well but too bad I never tried it and just put up with it over many years.
     
  7. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

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    Thanks Jeff. I think I will experiment with a bigger gauge cord as well.
     
  8. Mike_T_

    Mike_T_ Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the tip!!!
     
  9. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Chaz,

    I don't think you're gonna hear a big difference between the sherbourn and your sony 777es (60 lb receiver as a hefty 3 channel amp) on minimonitors and cc350..all set to small.

    Start upgrading your speakers before worrying about your center/rear amplification. I'd do: new front 3 speakers, then new rear speakers, then amps (maybe an 8008x3?).
     
  10. Ron Duca

    Ron Duca Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeff,

    I'm not sure you will experience as great a difference by going to a 10ga power cord as you did going from 16ga to 14ga and then 14ga to 12ga. The reason I say this, and keep in mind that I'm not an electrical engineer by any means, is that the typical wiring in residential houses is 12ga. At least that's what it is around here in northeast Oklahoma. I don't see how you can get much more, if any, current flow to the amp that what is delivered to your outlet. You may get some, but I wouldn't expect another orgasmic revelation. Feel free to correct me if my logic is incorrect.

    Ron Duca
     
  11. Jeff PB

    Jeff PB Agent

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    Ron, I am not an EE either and I agree with your point. Although, sometimes the EEs are so grounded in their theories / education / brainwashing as to not be able to acknowledge the obvious if using just ones ears. But I agree at this point it seems I probably have gotten most of my bang for the buck.
    My mentor in this area claims different power cord wire types sound different, as well as different connector types, and the 10ga wire he is going to give me sounds really good (it is just some store-bought wire but he has listened to many different types). So I am going to give it a shot with his recommended connectors (Hubbell and Wattgate).
    I don't pretend to understand this stuff but my ears are good.
    Here are a couple more data points - all my equipment shares the same 15amp circuit. My logic is if the amp can refill its lungs faster then it helps everything. And all the equipment has to draw power through the connections (plugs, receptacles, power conditioner), too so its not a direct mainline from the house wiring to the amp (which would be ideal, as I mentioned, to be able to give this amp its own 20amp circuit). Secondly what was described to me is that somehow the power cord itself, via a thick ground wire, and preferably in the right braided configuration, can act as something of a line conditioner filter. I think as a result of a stonger magnetic field around the lines. In commercial applications it is not unusual (from what I was told) for the ground to be twice the gauge or doubled from the other leads for this reason. Actually would be preferable to wire the whole circuit this way. This reasoning departs from just giving the amp more juice faster but gets into the area of better quality power, so this may sound like voodoo to some, but personally I believe in conditioners, too so I can swallow it.
    Well, I am having fun so I'll just give it a shot and then I can have a nice 12ga for the subwoofer, too.
    Who I am corresponding with in this area is Alan Maher and he frequents AVS forums and occasionally Audio Asylum. His website is http://community-2.webtv.net/audionutak/
     
  12. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    It all sounds so spooky!

    Martin.
     
  13. Jeff PB

    Jeff PB Agent

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    I know it sounds spooky but why is it that most people will accept a 12ga speaker wire is a good thing, but then on the front end they have all speakers being powered from an amp with 16ga power cord. It's all electricity.
     
  14. Jah-Wren Ryel

    Jah-Wren Ryel Stunt Coordinator

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    Except that the benefit of the 12ga speaker wire is to reduce signal attenuation to the speakers. If anything, you would want to rectify any signal (aka distortion of the sine wave) coming into the amp through its power feed, not preserve it.
     
  15. Jeff PB

    Jeff PB Agent

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    10x3 just do it
     
  16. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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  17. Chas_T

    Chas_T Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for the help guys. Good advice.
    I think I should have named this thread:
    Sherbourn/Aragaon/Paradigm/Power Cords [​IMG]
    Great information and good stuff here.
     

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