Disney+ She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (1 Viewer)

[jayembee]

Now that more people have seen it, I feel comfortable in saying that I didn't like the finale. Yes, the ending was bonkers. But it set a terrible precedent. Doing this was certainly unexpected and different, but it creates a real stakes problem for the future. If any plot thread can just be thrown out at will, then why should I care about anything going on?

I think you missed the point of her discussion with K.E.V.I.N. This was a one-time deal, and K.E.V.I.N. has fixed the glitch that allowed all this to happen.

 

[jayembee]

I wonder if this is a whole muti-verse kind of thing. At some point, they're gonna go "Just Kidding! That was Earth XYZABC! Now back to our regularly scheduled MCU shenanigans!"

Why would they feel the need to do that? Marvel hasn't felt the need to do it in the comics. As has been mentioned several times She-Hulk, at one point, constantly broke the fourth wall, and as far as I know, they've never disavowed that run of stories, or written them off as just taking place in an alternate universe. They might have ignored it in recent years, but they've never disavowed it.

It's all Alan Moore's fault. While there have been some characters/titles along the way that were specifically said to be from an alternate universe (eg. the Squardon Supreme), it wasn't until after Moore's run on Marvel UK's Captain Britain stuff in the 1980s that they went full multiverse.

 

[Jeff Cooper]

Blazing Saddles already did it.

 

[jayembee]

I think that's part of the problem though. The bargain Marvel struck with the audience was a cohesive cinematic universe, where characters can cross over and the events of one story can and will have repercussions on the other stories. While there are stylistic differences and even genre differences from title to title, there is a shared reality that exists across all of the works.

Now "She-Hulk" comes along and plays by a different set of rules. But when it's puncturing its own reality, it's not just puncturing its own reality -- it's puncturing the reality of all of the interconnected works. Even if She-Hulk is the only character that knows she's in a fictional story, it's still shoving the fact that the MCU is a fictional story in the audience's face. That is completely at odds with the idea of a fully immersive fictional universe.

I think Deadpool benefited from how messy Fox's X-Men continuity had become by the time he arrived on the scene. It didn't feel like a violation because Fox hadn't really made any serious effort to create a fully immersive fictional universe.

So what happens when Deadpool becomes integrated into the MCU? Will he no longer be able to break the fourth wall? Will he no longer be able to act as if he knows he's just a character in a superhero movie? If that happens, Deadpool fans will -- quite understandably -- go beserk, because it'll betray one of the facets that makes the Deadpool movies so much fun. I'm a fan of the MCU, and I'm a fan of Deadpool, and I want Deadpool -- as he is now -- become part of the MCU and stay true to his character rather than become just another MCU (anti-)hero alongside everyone else. In the comics, he still breaks the fourth wall with the best of them, and works alongside Black Panther, Spider-Man, and the rest. No one thinks this is a problem.

DC has done this too, in the comics. Back in the 80's, Keith Giffen created a character Ambush Bug, who does all of the same nonsense that we come to expect of any character that breaks the fourth wall. And right from the start, he's been part and parcel with the rest of the DC Universe. In fact, most of his early appearances had him annoying the crap out of the fairly staid Superman. He's still around, appearing within the last year in Suicide Squad (the comic, not the movie). While I might be willing to argue that the DC Universe is well and truly broken, and that Ambush Bug would be greatly pleased to have been the cause of that, his part in the DC Universe is not one of its problems.

Quite frankly, I think this She-Hulk series is, and should be, a one and done. I think it would be too distracting if, say, she became part of the Avengers line-up when they fight Kang. And I think it would feel too "expected" if they did this in a hypothetical second season. I would think it fine if, at the beginning of a Season 2 premiere, she looked toward the audience and said, "Yeah...hate to tell you publicly like this, but we're breaking up," and then go back to behaving like a regular character in a regular series.

 

[jayembee]

But I'm just a dude on a keyboard, so what the Hell do I know?

Well, at the very least, you know how to type coherent sentences with a keyboard. Which is more than one can say about any random cat.

 

[jayembee]

I was going to ask a similar question in my post. I think for those who feel like Adam, there isn't necessarily the same cohesive agreement with the Marvel Comics (Publishing) Universe compared to the cinematic one. I think there's the expectation that Marvel Comics/Publishing is this complicated beast where not all the titles are expected to be in the same universe, so variation is expected if not welcomed. The movie adaptations by nature of the ambition to have a wholly connected series of films, don't have the luxury of being so sprawling and potentially disconnected, so having them all at least be non-self aware seems like a fundamental requirement to the films. So She-Hulk shakes up that agreement or expectation.

Quite right, except that while it's true that not everything published by Marvel is expected to be a part of the cohesive Marvel Universe (or Multiverse), very experimental stories of this nature have always been part of the Marvel Comics Universe. And the fans roll with them without batting an eyelash, or feeling like they can't take anything from Marvel seriously anymore.

On the other hand, you make a good point -- if indeed this is part of your point -- is that those of us who are longtime fans of the comics are used to this kind of thing, whereas it might be something that's...uncomfortably...new to anyone who's a fan of the MCU without having been engaged with the comics.

 

[jayembee]

Watched two episodes and have not watched it since! So far no interest in going back and continuing this but I am surprised is getting a second season.

Why are you surprised?

Well, for one thing, if there's a second season, Tatiana Maslany will be surprised. She's been doing print interviews where she's said that she isn't sure if there will be a second season. To be honest, while I think an S2 is a good possibility, I also think her "moving up" to the movies is just as, if not more, likely. Especially if Mark Ruffalo lets his MCU contract come to an end.

 

[jayembee]

There are people on Reddit and Twitter saying that She-Hulk capital "r" Ruined the MCU.

I find that hard to believe. I'm sure such people had already decided that Captain Marvel ruined the MCU.

 

[jayembee]

I was so turned off by the way the first two episodes where done and how she hulk just can do everything her brother took countless years just because she was female. The overly simplistic way she got in the position to become the hulk was horrible. David Banner was exposed to massive doses of gamma radiation while she just got some of his blood on an open wound. The she hulk character is dismissive of the hulk character which doesn't go over good. For me it was so bad I just didn't feel the need or want to watch any further episodes. So I have to sit through every episode to have an opinion of it. mmmm.

You're first error is thinking that she could instantly do everything that he could do "because she is female".

 

[jayembee]

So maybe it’s not that she handles becoming a Hulk better “just because she’s female” and more because Bruce had some deep-seated emotional issues.

Certainly, at one point in the comics, writer Peter David brought in the idea that Banner suffered from dissociative identity disorder, and all of the different "Hulks" were distinct personalities. Other writers had suggested that Bruce experienced abuse as a child, something that was hinted at in Ang Lee's Hulk movie.

 

[Blimpoy06]

I've only watch the first two episodes, but plan to watch more. I'm hoping this will be a live action version for the MCU as to what Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law did to the Hanna Barbarra universe. Just a fun nod and wink to fans who enjoy the movies but realize it's just never going to all make sense when you look at it from a logical standpoint.

 

[jayembee]

What is missing is like any real person where something happens there is learning and adapting not just bam I can do this no problem.

So...like Captain America.

 

[Citizen87645]

I was so turned off by the way the first two episodes where done and how she hulk just can do everything her brother took countless years just because she was female. The overly simplistic way she got in the position to become the hulk was horrible. David Banner was exposed to massive doses of gamma radiation while she just got some of his blood on an open wound. The she hulk character is dismissive of the hulk character which doesn't go over good. For me it was so bad I just didn't feel the need or want to watch any further episodes. So I have to sit through every episode to have an opinion of it. mmmm.

This will be totally lost on you because you haven't watched after the first two episodes, but this basically reads like the complaints of the Hulk King and his acolytes.

On the other hand, you make a good point -- if indeed this is part of your point -- is that those of us who are longtime fans of the comics are used to this kind of thing, whereas it might be something that's...uncomfortably...new to anyone who's a fan of the MCU without having been engaged with the comics.

Somewhat my point. My other point is that the MCU's primary ambition was to interconnect all the films in a cohesive way, and consequently had no room for error or luxury to experiment with the formula because of the higher financial stakes of movie making, so now being experimental with breaking the fourth wall and self-awareness as a Disney property, can seem to compromise what guided the MCU for at least its first three phases.

 

[David Weicker]

This will be totally lost on you because you haven't watched after the first two episodes, but this basically reads like the complaints of the Hulk King and his acolytes.

Somewhat my point. My other point is that the MCU's primary ambition was to interconnect all the films in a cohesive way, and consequently had no room for error or luxury to experiment with the formula because of the higher financial stakes of movie making, so now being experimental with breaking the fourth wall and self-awareness as a Disney property, can seem to compromise what guided the MCU for at least its first three phases.

Oh WOW

Really?
Most of the character's first films (especially Guardians Of The Galaxy) were experiments. They just happened to work. Thor (the first) was an experiment that didn't completely work, so it evolved.

After they had a working entity, and saw how it functioned, then they figured out how it fit in.

Part of what made MCU work is that the various pieces are not alike. But the creative teams along the way have figured out how to make the pieces fit.

 

[Dave Moritz]

Never got into reading the Marvel comics so I never got into the different things the comics did.

 

[Jake Lipson]

She-Hulk is the subject of the Honest Trailer this week.

 

[Citizen87645]

The coda was the most on point.

 

[Francois Caron]

Sorry for the delay, I've been pretty busy lately searching for a new job.

I think the finale just broke my brain a little bit. I'm really curious to see how everyone reacts to this.

I was enjoying most of the finale, then we arrived at the climax of the Bro meeting...



Honestly, I liked the way the fourth wall was broken during most of the show. It was just the right amount of silliness without throwing any particular scene off track. But what we saw in the finale's big finish was like breaking the entire building to smithereens! It completely derailed the entire first season!

As I've said before, I know nothing about the Marvel Universe, so I'm able to appreciate the show without having a bunch of excess franchise baggage on my shoulders bogging me down. But what I saw in the finale was completely ludicrous! It looked like a rip-off of the big ending of Blazing Saddles, and I still have reservations over that sequence's usefulness in an otherwise masterpiece of a film!

I'm gonna hope that this was just a one-time creative brain fart by the showrunners. I definitely wouldn't want to see this become a regular occurrence. It just derails everything and throws you out of the story!

One of my favourite parts of the show was Nikki's little Fiat 500, but only because I happen to own the Abarth version.

 

[Wayne_j]

I would love it if Jennifer shows up in Daredevil and gets upset that she is no longer able to break the 4th wall and everyone looks at her like she is crazy.

 

[Francois Caron]

The Legal Eagle reviews the first half of the first season of She-Hulk.