Sharpness and DVE - Could I have had this wrong all along??

Discussion in 'Displays' started by KenRen, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. KenRen

    KenRen Stunt Coordinator

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    All,

    Just got the Digital Video Essentials DVD and ran through the basic calibration section. In this disk, and the Avia disk I used before, they commented during the sharpness section that if you don't see much difference, just keep the sharpness all the way down. Never saw much difference with the Avia disk at low sharpness levels. Not the case with DVE though!!!

    With DVE, at the very end of the discussion part, it also shows the entire sharpness pattern de-focusing, as an example when you have gone to far low with sharpness.

    I ran the test pattern, and oooooh my, my set was completely defocused. I ran it up until I saw the white artifacts surrounding the black lines, ran it down until they dissapeared, and kept going down. This is when I discovered the pattwern went completely out of focus, even hard the read the text of the pattern.

    Anyway, on my Pioneer 643, 16:9 set, Sharpness was -28 (-30 to +30 scale). Now it is at 0. (Using Denon 1600, component cable connection.)

    Quickly watching the opening of Lion King, I now realize I have been watching everything completely out of focus (way too little sharpness) for over 9 months. The details I have now is almost 3 dimentional. All this time I was convinced that the soft picture was what I have heard described as "filmlike." Am I am idiot or what?

    Could Avia have steered me wrong? Does the sharpness pattern work on DVE but not Avia? Anyone else seen this?


    Thanks,
    KenRen

    PS. Very unhappy with the color and hue portions of DVE. Damn Pioneer puts the adjustment overlay menu right on top of the critical portion of the test patterns.
     
  2. Kwang Suh

    Kwang Suh Supporting Actor

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    Surprise, surprise. I also noticed absolutely no difference with the Avia sharpness pattern. So, I just used my eyes. Since I have SVM disabled on my TV, I can crank up the sharpness without fear of halos.
     
  3. Steve_L_B

    Steve_L_B Stunt Coordinator

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    I get basically the same results with Avia and DVE.

    With Avia, you should also be looking at the frequency sweep patterns around the border of the sharpness pattern. You should see a loss of detail in the higher frequency patterns, even when the solid black lines in the center do not appear to be changing.

    -Steve
     
  4. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    The Sharpness control on Toshiba's works similar to your Pioneer, which is quite unlike the way it works on something like a Panasonic. I'm sure many Toshiba owners have drank the Sharpness Kool-Aid too.
     
  5. KenRen

    KenRen Stunt Coordinator

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    Steve,

    You are right. Relooked at Avia and I do see what you're talking about. Still think DVE is easier to see.

    On another note, am I right in thinking that even if you have "sharpened" your picturee too much, it in no way is presenting any hardware damage to the RPTV? (As opposed to a very high brightness setting.)

    KenRen
     
  6. KenRen

    KenRen Stunt Coordinator

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    All,

    Adjusted the sharpness settings on my s-video in from sattelite feed during the football games on Thanksgiving, by eye. Didn't look at the numbers, just the picture.

    For the s-video sattelite feed, when from -30 to -10. Big difference. Direct TV actually looks very good on the Pioneer 643. Anymore and it was too grainy. Looked "out of focus" below that.

    Again, my other video inputs were also way off, though I just set the DVD by Avia or DVE and copy those to other inputs for a starting setting.

    Anyone else tried this with success?

    Thanks guys (and gals),
    KenRen
     
  7. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Oversharpening should pose no problem, except a degradation in image quality, sometimes to an extreme, due to the added artificial sharpening artifacts.
     
  8. BenK

    BenK Stunt Coordinator

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    I've had better results using DVE for sharpness than Avia. The raised sharpness from using DVE brought better focus than the setting I had before from Avia.
     
  9. David Abrams

    David Abrams Stunt Coordinator

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    Greetings,

    The sharpness/overscan pattern on DVE was specifically designed to target the frequency space that many manufacturers were setting their sharpness controls to manipulate, which is approximately 2.8Mhz. The transitions in the pattern actually correspond to different frequency spaces; therefore, one may look at different parts of the pattern to see at what frequencies the sharpness control is affecting the most and then make an adjustment. It is very likely that one section of the pattern may be affected more than another based on what frequencies the sharpness control is manipulating.

    You can actually read more about this topic in the latest edition of Widescreen Review.

    Regards,
     
  10. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    The old "turn the sharpness all the way down" advice hasn't applied to any of the Sony sets I've owned. With my current KP57HW40 I find that I can go all the way to 50% on a scale of 0-100 for HD, about 40% for dvd, and maybe 30% for regular DirecTv and cable channels (SVM disabled in the service menu).
     
  11. anthony_b

    anthony_b Screenwriter

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    I'm so glad I read this a while back because I thought I was going crazy while I was playing around with my DVE last night. Like the original poster I was watching everything "film like" when in reality it was lack of detail.....My question is, should the settings be the same in Progresive mode as in Interlaced ?
     
  12. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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